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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Depth gauge stopped working Redux

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/02/2013 : 20:00:01

So on our sail yesterday, the depth gauge was acting up. It was reading zero in the slip, then seemed to read OK while transiting the Duwamish, and then as the depth got greater, it ran to 193' and started blinking (this is what it normally does when the depth is too great). However, as we approached the shoal at Duwamish Head, I noticed that the depth wasn't decreasing, just flashing 193' constantly, when it should have been reading roughly 25-30' where we were (tide had just started going out, water's roughly 20' at MLLW, and it had been a roughly 8' tide, so I knew we had plenty of water under the keel, but went out around the marker just in case.

I tried resetting the gauge, and power off/on a couple of times, which reset it to read 0 instead of 193'. Anyone seen similar behavior, could it be growth on the transducer? I deliberately ran the boat "fast" at 5kts to see if I could scour anything off of it, and the speed log was working the whole time, and it's much more prone to fouling than the depth gauge is.

Anyone have insight or recommendations?

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Edited by - delliottg on 07/06/2013 18:01:42

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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Response Posted - 06/04/2013 : 12:52:52

What is the manufacturer of your gauge?

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 06/04/2013 : 13:50:12

I believe it's a Raymarine Bi-Data, pretty sure it's OEM equipment on the boat, so it's an older model. It occurs to me that I should check the cable up under the V-berth, but I've got it protected with cylinder of PVC and the only thing that's on top of it are sails, although my weights in the bow could have shifted and slid back into it (not likely, but you never know).

Edited by - on

Capri-25 Editor
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Response Posted - 06/04/2013 : 15:49:47

Check the cable, and check the surface for fouling.. keep in mind these are nothing more than large speakers/microphones... any noise (real noise).. can mess with them... actually low frequency noise. Electrical interference can also create issues.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 06/23/2013 : 19:23:26

Today Rita & I headed down to the boat to see if we could figure out what was wrong with the depth sounder. I fully expected to be doing surgery on the cable since it seemed that it started working when I played with the transducer end of the cable. That was not to be, happily.

We started out having Rita sit in the cockpit while I fiddled with the cable where I thought it was crimped by the 4" PVC protector. However, we couldn't get it to work reliably, and the read out would either read 18' or so feet (about right for the marina at high-tide-ish), or then just drop to 0'. I still couldn't get it to read reliably, and the "FEET" part of the display never stopped flashing. According to the manual, this meant that it had lost depth signal, whatever that means. So I wondered about the other end of the cable, at the display end. It was "easy" to get to the back end of the mounting bolts, but the tiny little holes made it hard to get to plastic knurled thumb nuts. It probably took us close to half an hour of working in concert (one outside manipulating the position of the display, the other on the inside turning the thumb nuts with a screw driver blade). Finally it came free, and it was immediately obvious what the problem was. The SeaTalk cable was loose and came out completely when we pulled it away from the cabin bulkhead. I had Rita push the connector back in, then turned on the sounder, and voila, a nice steady reading, with no blinking "FEET" in the display. I'll post some pictures later. There are three different sets of connections, the SeaTalk cable (three connections), the speed log (three connections), and the transducer (three wires, but two are electrically joined at the connector).

I really-really don't ever want to go through the unbolting thing again, so I'm going to replace the bolts & nuts with new brass components. The bolt is just a piece of 4-40(?) brass all thread, that should have been Loctited into the instrument, but it wasn't, and the nuts are hard to get to through the rough cut holes, so I'll replace them with regular nuts and some lock washers some fender washers to spread the "load". A trip to Lowe's tomorrow at lunch should provide all the new hardware I need. In the interim, we pulled all the connections from the display and taped over the hole to keep rain out for a few days. I plan to clean up the hole before I put it all back together, whoever cut it didn't do a very good job, it's a very jagged hole, so I'll clean it up with a Dewalt Rotary cut-out tool which makes a very nice, clean cut. That way I don't have to worry that the cables could be abraded.

Edited by - delliottg on 06/24/2013 08:02:48

britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/24/2013 : 03:30:38

David, can you post some pics of the back of the display and the method of how it secures to the bulkhead?

Paul

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2013 : 08:01:44

Here you go Paul:
You can see the access hole inside the cabin, it's just a roughly 1" hole rough drilled into the bulkhead covered up by a white plastic insert (which I don't have a picture of):

Here's one of the back side of the instrument itself. They did a nice job of color coding everything. The only thing that wasn't crystal clear was where the SeaTalk cable plugged in. We figured it out from the dust in one of them (the right one), and lack of dust in the other, which must have been the one the cable worked out of:

I don't have pictures of the brass all-thread that connects to the back, but you can see the holes in the instrument where it threads in. The all thread is roughly 1-1/2" long and then there are plastic knurled nuts that just screw down onto the backside of the fiberglass of the cockpit bulkhead.

Edited by - delliottg on 06/24/2013 08:04:38

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2013 : 19:15:44

Who'd have thought finding replacement brass all-thread rod & nuts would be? I think the bolts are 4mm x 0.5 pitch, but they could equally well be 8-36, both seem to fit well based on the gauges I used at work. However, good luck finding either! I've been to four different places looking, WM doesn't even carry metric anything, and nobody I've talked to have ever even seen 8-36 (8-32 is "standard"). I guess I'll be talking to Tacoma Screw tomorrow to see if they've got them on hand, otherwise I'll be ordering hardware online.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/24/2013 : 20:38:29

I think I have a pair of those from an Autohelm Tri-Data that I removed. Email me and I'll figure out where they are and how to get them to you.

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awetmore
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Response Posted - 06/24/2013 : 20:51:52

Also, I measured, the all thread is metric: M4 x 0.7mm pitch.

alex

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/25/2013 : 05:19:16

Did you talk to Raymarine? I have had really good responses in the past.

Paul

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/25/2013 : 20:10:00

David - I assume that your Seatalk cable is just a 2-wire pigtail that provides 12vDC to the meter. Note that Seatalk is a daisy-chain network system that allows easy sharing of data (and 12vDC power) between different devices. One of the best things I did was to connect my depth instrument to my autopilot using a SeaTalk cable that I found for under $20 on ebay. Now if Lori falls asleep against the depth readout (which is on the cabin bulkhead) I can bring up the depth reading on the autopilot console (which is on the side coaming).

This may not be relevant to you since you don't have a wheel pilot, but it might be of interest to others here.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 06/25/2013 : 20:53:25

Rick, I think you're correct, the other two leads are from the transducer & speed log so power must come from the SeaTalk plug. I'm thinking I'm going to hot melt glue it into the back of the instrument so it can't work itself loose again. The rest of the connections should be fine.

Paul, I haven't talked to RayMarine, but I was able to find hardware at Tacoma Screw today.

Alex, thanks for the offer, but as above, Tacoma Screw was able to get me sorted out for the princely sum of $1 for three each SS bolts, nuts & fender washers. He couldn't be bothered to figure out the prices on them since it was such a tiny amount.

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delliottg
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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2013 : 15:00:57

We got the instrument back installed yesterday. I was able to clean up the threads on the brass rods with some SS nuts that I bought, so we were able to reuse them. I used some thread locker (semi-permanent) to thread the rods into the back of the instrument & let that set. Then we cleaned up the hole a bit so it wasn't so ragged. I was worried about cutting a cable, so I didn't go over board, just enough that there are no longer razor edges surrounding the entire back of the instrument. Itchy job to do though in 90 degree heat, even with Rita running the vacuum as I cut.

I used a hot melt glue gun to stick the SeaTalk connector to the back of the instrument after I'd seated it as deep as it'd go. I hope that keeps it from working loose again, but if it does, at least we know how to fix it a whole lot faster than last time.

Getting the wires run and out of the way was tricky. Not so much the wires as the ferrite cores, as they just barely fit between the inner & outer bulkheads, and pushing them around between them is asking for a nice fiberglass splinter. After some wiggling around from both the front & back, pushing wires with a screwdriver blade, etc., we got them sufficiently out of the way to get the new SS nuts & fender washers on. So much easier than the thumb nuts we took off of it!

Now the depth gauge seems happy, and we could actually watch the tide going out as the depth gauge read lower & lower. Pretty happy to see that.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2013 : 18:08:08

And now it's doing the exact same thing...

Went down to install the new Fortress anchor today, and we were at a pretty low tide when I got there, so decided to see what my newly fixed depthsounder thought we had for water under the keel. Apparently none, and again with the blinking "FEET". That made me extremely happy.

I didn't have my deep socket set with me, so I wasn't able to remove the instrument and see what the deal was. I've begun to suspect the SeaTalk cable itself is the culprit. I pulled the breaker panel and took a look at the other end of the wiring. Unimpressed. I'm thinking I'm going to just remove the SeaTalk cable and replace it with a regular piece of wire & some connectors. I'm pretty sure it was just spade connectors in there, and it shouldn't be hard to pull it out from the breaker panel.

If that's not it, apparently the only way to test the instrument is to hook it up to another transducer to see if you get the same behavior. Which I don't have.

I sense a $400 bill about to leave my pocket. Grrrr...

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