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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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PFD's

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Carl B.
1st Mate

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USA
83 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/01/2003 : 23:04:12

What is everybody using for PFDs? Is anyone using the Automatic Inflatable PFDs? If so how do you like them? And what kind would you recommend? Also who would have the best deal? Do they have a life limit on them? What do you thank? Too many question?

"OBLIVIOUS" C25 '82 #3098 SR/FK/Trad

Edited by - on

mroettersr
Navigator

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USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2003 : 00:01:42

Carl,
I received a Stearns manual inflatable as a gift from my son who purchased the jacket from SailNet last year. I think the price was about $60. I really like the jacket as it is comfortable to wear when its hot here on Lake Erie in mid-summer (unlike now where the ice fishermen are enjoying the cold). It's a good jacket for near shore use since it doesn't have provision for a teather. The jacket seemed to be nicely made and comes with a nice hanging storage bag.

Mike Roetter
'83 C25 #3568 SK/SR
Marblehead on Lake Erie

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2003 : 01:30:48

My family uses Sopspenders. One's with built in clip for lanyard. They are nice to wear and dont get in the way. They adjust easy to wear over your foul weather gear or just over a T shirt.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2003 : 10:20:06

If you go with an auto-inflatable, be sure to follow the maintenance schedule. Articles I've read suggest their reliability is a little shaky--especially if not taken care of. On the other hand, if you're more likely to be wearing one because it isn't as bothersome as a foam vest, you're better off even if you have to pull the cord.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2003 : 10:56:36

I use a 'Stormy Seas' manual inflation vest. This is the one that many of the commercial fishermen favor around here. (Pacific NW)

The manufacturer designs these for commercial/professional use and offers some pretty good reasons why they don't have an auto-inflate model. (too many unintended deployments in severe conditions, reliability issues etc.)

Very comfortable.. You forget you're even wearing a flotation device.
IMHO much more comfortable than the SOSuspenders.

I figure that having a comfortable, non-confining vest is acutally a safety issue... you're more likely to have it on, and less likely to go over the side due to any 'induced clumsiness' of a bulky vest.

I believe that manual inflation vests don't meet USCG requirements, so if you get one (or more) you need to carry enough conventional vests on board to meed the regulations... (which I do). I wear the Stormy Seas, but keep 'conventionals' in the locker.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2003 : 17:23:17

Kids use zip or buckle vests. We use Stearns fanny pack style inflatables. There's also 4 good old orange "Mae West" PFDs on board.

Doug - #1913 Noeta

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2003 : 18:34:48

Carl,

How many in your crew?

Aboard North Star I carry, by last count, 15 PFD's. I have so many that I don't think my boat can even sink! All of them are of the Type III foam filled variety, with the majority being the vest style. I carry this many because, besides my wife and two daughter's, I'm always taking along nieces and nephews as well as my kid's friends. Due to the various sizes of all these kids, I carry vests in multiple sizes: infant(2), small child(3), large child(3), small adult(1), and average adult(6).

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc32b3127cce92e981259d130000001010" border=0>
Cradled on the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

Carl B.
1st Mate

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USA
83 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2003 : 21:00:02

Don,
It looks like we are in the same boat(ha ha)wife and two daughter (5&8) we have several of the kids & adults PFDs in the vest type and the "MAE WEST". I was thank of buying some Automatic Inflatable Sopspenders for me and my girls. They look like they would be more comfortable. But I do not know how safe & well they work.

"OBLIVIOUS" C25 '82 #3098 SR/FK/Trad

Edited by - Carl B. on 02/02/2003 21:02:46

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 00:20:29

We wondered about how safe an inflatable PFD would be, but in the end it came down to what we would wear. Sure, a Mae West or buckled on vest would be safer, but if you don't wear it because it's hot or bulky it's useless. The kids wear what we tell them (so far).

Doug - #1913 Noeta

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 09:43:19

I'm thinking of getting an inflatable for myself, but my wife, kids, and guests will probably continue using the foam filled type III's.

The reason is my wife is not exactly a water person and her swimming skills are somewhat lacking. If she were to go in the water with a manual inflatable PFD, I don't think,...no, make that I KNOW...she wouldn't be calm enough to pull the lanyard to inflate the PFD. The same goes if she wore an automatic PFD and needed to inflate it manually. And although my girls(8 and 12) were practically born on the water, I don't want to rely on them to manually inflate their PFD's in the event of an emergency.

As for me, I am quite comfortable in the water, so I would have no problems with inflating a PFD. The only issue I can think of with me is if,...say, I were knocked out by the boom before going in the water. The manual PFD wouldn't do me any good and neither would the automatic if it were necessary to manually inflate it.

Having said that, I'm inclined to get the inflatable belt pack PFD for myself, because it appears to be the most comfortable and convenient(and the least expensive, SailNet SOSpenders $54.95, Stearn's $44.95).
<img src="http://www.sailnet.com/store/prodimage/large/sos38mwb.jpg" border=0>
During our rather hot summers, comfort is a very high priority. The uniform-of-the-day in summer is bathing suits and T-shirts, and the belt pack appears to be the most comfortable, especially when I go sans shirt. Additionally, I don't think the belt packs would be a good choice for my wife and kids due to the fact that these are only recommended for adults who are good swimmers since these PFD's must be unpacked and put on before inflating.

Currently for comfort, my wife and I will unzip our PFD's to provide a little comfort.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cda3c9f470000001410" border=0>

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc32b3127cce92e981259d130000001010" border=0>
Cradled on the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - dlucier on 02/03/2003 10:22:53

Edited by - on

cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 11:25:50

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
My family uses Sopspenders. One's with built in clip for lanyard. They are nice to wear and dont get in the way. They adjust easy to wear over your foul weather gear or just over a T shirt.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Same here. We replace the cartidges every other year (or more often if needed).

Cathy
"Blown Away"
'97 C250WK #253

Edited by - on

Shelby
Navigator

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USA
155 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 13:51:23

We wear the auto inflate sospenders from WM. They also have the heavy duty buckle. I like them because they are comfortable and don't get in the way. We also have 8 Mae West type PFDs on board.

Shelby
'82 C25 "Thirds S", #3208, SKSR, Honda 9.9, Lake Pleasant, AZ

Edited by - on

KTwomey
1st Mate

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USA
43 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 14:14:36

Ditto on the SOSpenders. We wear them most all the time and they are so comfortable that you forget you have them on. It’s nice to have something comfortable to offer to guests because they don’t mind wearing them as opposed to other bulky types.

We’ve tested the outdated cartridges by jumping in the lake with the vests on,(summer time when its warm). They inflate in two seconds.

We’ve only had one accidental inflation. My daughter was wearing one and was sitting in the cockpit leaning against the cabin. It was riding up on her so she pulled at the bottom of the vest to re-adjust it and accidently pulled the little red tab. It worked.

Ken Twomey
AKUNA MATADA
C25 SK/SR
Folsom, CA

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2003 : 12:59:30

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
What is everybody using for PFDs? Is anyone using the Automatic Inflatable PFDs? If so how do you like them? And what kind would you recommend? Also who would have the best deal? Do they have a life limit on them? What do you thank? Too many question?

"OBLIVIOUS" C25 '82 #3098 SR/FK/Trad
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

When I race, if I wear anything I will wear the auto-inflatible, especially when on foredeck. SOS-penders makes a great auto inflatible that you don't see in too many of the major chains either. I beleive it is the sailing model (no picture on the website, otherwise I would give you a link. The sailing model rests more on your shoulders, has a metal clasp, not plastic and has D-Rings built in that are perfect for a harness as well. I would stear clear of the waist belt models, there is no gurantee you'll be conscious enough to slip into them when the boom hits you in the head.

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2003 : 14:48:12

"...I will wear the auto-inflatible, especially when on foredeck...I would stear clear of the waist belt models, there is no gurantee you'll be conscious enough to slip into them when the boom hits you in the head."

Duane,

With the foredeck of a racing sailboat being at times the wettest of environments, the chances of premature activation of the automatic backup inflation system is greatly increased. SOSpenders and the USCG wants the users of automatic systems to regard the automatic systems as manual systems with automatic backups.

Additionally, PFD's with automatic backup systems require a stringent maintenance program to remain effective and, as we all know, preventative maintanence is very often overlooked especially on critical boat system(swing keel hardware, standing rigging, electrical,...etc). We see examples of this every day with posts about what the DPO did to this or that.

This was found on the web,

There are some things to consider before you switch to the Auto Inflators.

1) As opposed to conventional, inherently buoyant PFDs, these are high-tech devices. They will not provide buoyancy until they’re inflated. This imposes a higher level of responsibility on the user. They MUST be carefully inspected before each use to see that the inflator mechanism is armed and in good condition. The bladder must not leak, and the user must be familiar with its use and operation. This is a big difference from using a conventional PFD.

2) They are not recommended for swift water sports (white water) or any activity where the user will probably get soaked (personal watercraft, sailboards).

3) Cold weather adversely affects the operation of these PFDs. While the CO2 cartridge will fully inflate the vest most of the year, in extremely cold temperatures the same amount of gas will not expand to the same volume, reducing the vest’s buoyancy.

4) While they are designed to auto-inflate only when immersed in water and not by rain or high humidity, the ‘pill/bobbin’ material can break down under these conditions and activate the inflator.

5) Inflatable PFDs provide no protection from hypothermia.

6) Since there is a slight delay from immersion to inflation, they are not recommended for non-swimmers.

7) An inflatable MUST be worn as the outermost layer. Never wear a coat or rain gear over these vests.

This is from the FAQ's from the SOSpender's website:

Do you guarantee that the auto will go off?

The automatic inflator is designed to inflate the unit within 5 seconds of immersion, however, the Coast Guard does not want you to depend entirely on the automatic mechanism. The automatic should be used as a manual unit with an automatic backup system. - SOSpender.com

What type of a backup system do the different models have?

The automatic backup system for the manually ripcord activated with automatic backup system models will inflate the unit within five seconds of immersion. Both the manually ripcord activated with automatic backup system model and the manually ripcord activated model have backup oral inflation valves.

My automatic unit inflated when it was stored and no one had been using it. Is there something wrong with my unit?

Unfortunately, one of the disadvantages of an automatic is that the unit can prematurely inflate even when not in use. Usually it is because the bobbin has become unstable due to age, subjection to humidity, extreme heat or it may have gotten wet at some point and eventually deteriorated.

How often do you have to replace the bobbin?

To help prevent premature inflation of the unit, Halkey Roberts (the makers of the bobbin) recommends that you replace it annually or more often if the unit gets wet or is used in hot, humid, or foggy conditions. We suggest at least once each boating season and more often if the unit is subjected to the previously mentioned conditions.

How sensitive is the bobbin?

The manufacturers of the automatic inflator used neither the most sensitive nor the least sensitive device for activating the automatic inflator. Any time you utilize a water soluble device, it is susceptible to the basic environment and will ultimately fail. However, the manufacturer of the device has chosen to have the device fail positively which means there is a possibility of a premature inflation of a unit.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc32b3127cce92e981259d130000001010" border=0>
Cradled on the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2003 : 15:53:45

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
With the foredeck of a racing sailboat being at times the wettest of environments, the chances of premature activation of the automatic backup inflation system is greatly increased.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote> Understood Don, however when sailing on a 35 or 40 footer in 25 knot winds, not having the mobility on the foredeck can be just as hazardous as not wearing a life jacket. The SOSpenders provides me with the mobility I need along with the safety. I've worn these items in rain and some good amount of spray without inflation. Upon personally questioning them in those conditions, I submersed the jacket in water and it fired. I am completely comfortable with them. NOt to mention, premature activation just means I am stuck going below to get a regular pfd. As SOSpenders says <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>However, the manufacturer of the device has chosen to have the device fail positively which means there is a possibility of a premature inflation of a unit.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>I would rather have them error on this side of caution.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
SOSpenders and the USCG wants the users of automatic systems to regard the automatic systems as manual systems with automatic backups. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote> No offense intended to anyone, but that statement, in my mind, is a little bit backwards. Take for instance a manually activated inflatible jacket that does not activate by submersion. If in the process of running downwind, 6 to 8 foot swells (obviously not in a c-25) we catch an unexpected kock in the middle of a gybe. The pole happens to catch me in the face knocking me unconcious and throwing me 20 feet from the boat. The manual jacket wouldn't do me any good in that instance! Alternatively, the automatic inflatible would. They should consider it an automatic jacket with a manual backup. If the Coast Guard feels that way they should have never approved the inflatible models to begin with. The concept is to have it inflate while you are unconcsious. And if that were the case, if just like I did before they were approved, I would put mine on and put the Legal PFD below. I guarantee you, if your thrown off a boat, 5 seconds of immersion will happen long before you orient yourself and pull the cord.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Additionally, PFD's with automatic backup systems require a stringent maintenance program to remain effective.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote> I couldn't agree with you more, Our supply kit onboard contains no less than 8 replacement cartridges of CO2 along with a dozen or pill/bobbins. We inspect ours no less than once a month. When you rely on it the way many of us do, anything less wouldn't cut it.

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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