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Cabin-Top Winch?

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LeighMarie
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USA
188 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/02/2003 : 19:55:34

I have an '85 SW C25 and do not have any lines run back to the cockpit. I did some fancy runnin' and jumpin' (with some help from Tilly my Autopilot!) this past summer and I was able to get the main up and down, while sailing alone. However, I think it would be a lot more fun (although less daring!) to have the main halyard and the boom vang line running back. It is very easy to raise my mainsail by the mast now. When I run it back, will I need to have winch on the cabin top? I'd like to not put one there, but I don't know if I will need it or not.

I have a roller furler and so really never deal with the jib halyard. Do I need to run that back? I'm thinking I could just run to the 2 lines mentioned above and that would be it. Am I missing anything?

BTW, my wife and I just got back today from the Chicago Stricly Sail Show and it was great! Even Frank Butler was there along with a whole contigency of Catalinas. What a fun couple of days!

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2003 : 20:43:24

You might try putting all the hardware to run the lines to the cockpit on now but leave room on one side for a cabintop winch. You could add it later. You can refer the tech tip on [url="http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/tt008.htm"]lines led aft[/url]. In that tech tip you are seeing the starboard side without the winch but I have the same set up on port with the addition of a Lewmar #7.
I use the cabintop winch to reef. I have been caught in some blows and and sometimes I need the cabintop winch for the reefing line. It’s very useful and if you are doing all the work to lead lines aft why not put it in now?
I think running the lines aft is the best upgrade for our boats. I chose to buy Peregrine for that reason over another similar boat that didn't have it. Whether you are single handing or with a friend it keeps you in the cockpit for most of the day. It's easier and safer IMO.

Underlined words are a HOT link.
 

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
 John G- "PEREGRINE" C25-#4762 FK

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 10:50:47

Great information John! I would lean toward leaving room for it for a later installation to see if I need it. I presume you are able to raise your mainsail all the way just by pulling on it from the cockpit, right? There is little resistance in getting my main up, so I would presume even with a couple of re-routing of the main halyard that I could get it up.

It's an interesting proposition you pose regarding the reefing line. I'm not sure I have mine set up correctly at all, but I'll just quickly explain it to inquire about the winch. I had no idea how to reef our sail last year, but after consultation, I attached a short piece of line to a grommet on the luff of the sail which I presume was to go over some kind of hook when reefed. I have no hook, but there is a small horn clean on the mast that appears to be at the right spot to attach the line, which is now how I successfully can reef the sail. If I make that line longer I would then be able to run it back to the cockpit, right? I have never yet been in weather that we needed to quickly reef, but I can see how that could happen - especially if sailing alone. (Do I need to worry that there is no hook on the mast?)

Lastly, is a Lewmar #7 adequate for that job? I presume a single speed would work, or would it need to be a double?

Thanks!

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

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John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 12:18:12

Somewhere there is a diagram of single line reefing for a C25. I just can’t find it right now. I think that being able to reef from the cockpit is the best reason for running the lines aft. You reef when it gets too windy a perfect time NOT to leave the cockpit and wander around the cabin top.
You need a padeye at the end of the boom on one side to attach the line then two cheekblocks on the other to run the line through. The line goes up from the padeye through the reefing cringle on the leach then down to the cheekblock on the boom, forward to the other cheekblock then up to the cringle on the luff. From there you can come down to the base of the mast and back to the cockpit.
I have the main halyard, reefing line and topping lift (in that order) on the starboard side with a cabin top winch, and yes the #7 is plenty. That way everything I need to reef is all on one side and fast. I reef alone in under a minute and on the Sound in spring and fall I do it a lot.
 

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
 John G- "PEREGRINE" C25-#4762 FK

Edited by - on

Mark Maxwell
Captain

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USA
329 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 16:11:50

Here is a link to a reefing diagram http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/4-1-9.gif

It is in the Owners Manual (newer version) on the front page http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/om88.html

Be sure to use the reef cringle and not the cunningham cringle on the luff

<img src="http://www.chaplin-nest.com/unkarock/usflagwav.gif" border=0>
Mark-
'Impulse'
C25 #533 DINN/FIN ~_/)~
Bakersfield, CA.

Edited by - Mark Maxwell on 02/03/2003 16:13:38

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 16:21:55

The diagram that Mark supplied shows a two line system. To make it a single line system continue the line forward from the cheekblock on the aft end of the boom to an added cheekblock at the front of the boom then up to the cringle on the luff. From there you can come down to the base of the mast and back to the cockpit.
 

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
 John G- "PEREGRINE" C25-#4762 FK

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 16:51:21

Wow! I don't think I'll ever dare tell you what I thought the cheek block and Pay Eyes (did I get those right?) were for! OK I will, I thought they may have been for some sort of sail cradle system or something. When we reefed last year, I disconnected my outhaul line, ran it through the reefing cringle (never knew that word before) and then reattached the end of the outhaul line. However, I did use the right reefing cringle on the luff of the sail, so I get 10 extra credit points for that. Now I'm anxious to actually run a reefing line.

Question of logistics: My setup is the same as the pictures, and so if I put an extra cheekblock on the front of the boom and then run the line up through the cringle and back down, it would come down on the port side of the boom. It would then behoove me to run that line to the port side of the cabintop, wouldn't it? I was thinking of running everything to the starboard side (actually only 2 other lines), but I don't necessarily have to.

In looking at how it's supposed to be done, I can now see how it could be done very quickly. We really were questioning how that could be done in less than a minute. It took me that long to get the outhaul line loose! Thanks!

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 17:12:10

I don't have a single line reefing system, but I was investigating them at one time. If memory serves, I believe there was a piece of hardware, a hook-like thingy, that went through the forward reefing grommet so that the line didn't have too. The line attached to the hook and stayed on the starboard side.

John Matsche 1985 Cat-25 TR/FK

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2003 : 21:57:30

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Wow! I don't think I'll ever dare tell you what I thought the cheek block and Pay Eyes (did I get those right?) were for!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
The trick is to say “cheekblock” with an absolutely straight face when you order one. 
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>When we reefed last year, I disconnected my outhaul line, ran it through the reefing cringle (never knew that word before) and then reattached the end of the outhaul line. However, I did use the right reefing cringle on the luff of the sail, so I get 10 extra credit points for that.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
How long did that take? You’ll be reefing in less then a minute with single line reefing. 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Question of logistics: My setup is the same as the pictures, and so if I put an extra cheekblock on the front of the boom and then run the line up through the cringle and back down, it would come down on the port side of the boom. It would then behoove me to run that line to the port side of the cabintop, wouldn't it? I was thinking of running everything to the starboard side (actually only 2 other lines), but I don't necessarily have to.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
If the PO installed the aft cheekblock on the starboard side side, go with it. You don’t want to change everything you will end up with holes all over your boom.
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>We really were questioning how that could be done in less than a minute. It took me that long to get the outhaul line loose!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Practice. You want to be familiar with a new system long before you need it.

The outhaul is no longer an issue. After setting the topping lift so the boom won’t drop just ease the main with one hand while pulling in, or winching in, the reefing line. I suggest you place the Main Halyard, Reefing Line and Topping Lift on the same side as the winch. 

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
 John G- "PEREGRINE" C25-#4762 FK

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2003 : 14:09:53

John, it did take quite awhile to reef the sail. We did a couple of times, but we were in our slip even before going out when we did it. Now, to think that we could do it from the cockpit is exciting. I'm looking forward to getting the boat out of storage and running the lines. Of course buying the equipment to run the lines back won't be cheap - it's amazing how much that stuff costs! But, once it's done, it will be great. I need to check what side of the boom I will be able to run the single line reefing line down to determine which side I run the lines to.

My hunch is it wouldn't be a good idea to run the line stoppers on to the cabin top that pops up!

Thanks again!

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2003 : 15:12:07

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

My hunch is it wouldn't be a good idea to run the line stoppers on to the cabin top that pops up!

Thanks again!

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Look again at the tech tip I posted above. Run the lines between the handrails and the poptop. There is just enough room for a triple clutch. Just as if some one at the factory thought of it in the design process. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
 

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
 John G- "PEREGRINE" C25-#4762 FK

Edited by - on

dave andersen
1st Mate

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85 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2003 : 20:15:13

As to your original question about a cabin top winch. I was about to
do it when I had a epiphany -- there is a perfectly good winch 2 feet
further on for the jib sheets. That's what I use, works just great
for snugging the main halyard.

As for reefing lines. I tried the single line reef by running the
line back to the cockpit; in a blow I couldn't get the main down to
the boom ( I don't think you should have to winch it). Far too many
friction points in single line reefing. Solution: 2 line reefing
with both lines back to the cockpit -- much faster because the
friction is much less and I think I have more control.

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2003 : 11:15:29

Dave, Both of those are great suggestions. I had wondered whether, for the times when a winch is really needed, I could just use one of the jib winches. I think I will try that route first before installing one on the cabintop. The less I have to trip on while going forward the better.

I also like the idea of using the 2 reefing line system. I think it would be best to have it just one line, so I may intially set it up that way, but would know that I could run another line if that doesn't work quite as well.

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

Edited by - on

apgibbs
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2003 : 16:54:23

My "new" '84 has a cabintop winch like you're describing but just the halyards run aft. Somehow it seems if I run the lines for both reefs and the boomvang aft I won't have anywhere to step if I need to go forward. Being fairly new to sailing I think I'll concentrate on keeping everything as simple as possible for a while.

Pat Gibbs "Enchanteur"
C25 #4332 trad/fin

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2003 : 13:41:25

I agree that cabin top winches are not absolutely neccessary to run your lines to the cockpit. I do have them and find that one of the advantages of using them is to keep the lines from rubbing on the cabin top and cutting into the fiberglass. I have a couple of spots where this has happened when I didn't use them. Running the halyards or whatever back to the jib sheet winches is going to put the line under tension right across exposed gelcoat. Just be careful.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2003 : 13:16:25

Both Ed's and Pat's last comments are well taken. I was a bit concerned about getting so many lines running back that it would get in the way of walking. I have to say that when we're under sail, I absolutely, completely, without-question love to go forward when I can to just sit and relax (someone else is "driving," of course!), and I use that are to walk on. I don't want to clutter it up, and now after thinking about this whole issue for another month, I may just do the halyard and vang line for now and see what happens. Those are the 2 I use the most anyway. My new mast halyard plate is on its way from Catalina Direct, and I hope to get the boat out of storage later this month! I will be curious as to how I'll install the halyard plate. I hope it comes with directions!!!!

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2003 : 16:04:11

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I will be curious as to how I'll install the halyard plate. I hope it comes with directions!!!!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
I don't recall whether I got any directions--you simply remove the mast step, clean up the goop, and put the plate under it (with lotsa bedding, as always).

The issue I ran into is that the plate is not drilled to match the step, at least on the older boats like our '85. It's very heavy stainless, so I took the step and the plate to my rigger and had him drill a couple of holes in the plate. (Cost me about what replacing the several drill bits would've). The nuts and washers wedged around the compression post are a little tricky, too. Fortunately, you don't need any significant backing, since the pressure is down--you just need to tighten up (after the bedding cures) enough to waterproof the installation--as discussed on other current threads. Tighten the nuts below, not the bolts above.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2003 : 16:14:52

Thanks Dave! That was the information I sort of remember reading earlier on a different post. I'm looking forward to getting the boat out of storage to start working on it again. Your info. will be very useful. But of course we know anyone with the name of "Dave" and having a 1985 Catalina has to be a smart person!

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

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