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Check out this splice

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/30/2013 : 15:24:50

We found a guy in VA that does boat rigging. Just received our first piece from him and we are very pleased with the results. This is going on the new traveler.

We shouldn't have any problem distinguishing this line from the others!

1989 C25 TR/WK, #5822
1973 McVay Minuet 19
1975 Jester 12
1981 C25 SR/SK, #2428
1981 C22 SR/SK,
Tanzer 16
Sunfish

"There is nothing, absolutely nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats." Kenneth Grahame

Edited by - OJ on 07/30/2013 16:35:16

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2013 : 17:04:43

That's a thing of beauty! I love making splices, but mine don't look that nice.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2013 : 17:37:04

Beauty!
Love the whipping.

Edited by - on

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 07:11:59

I purchased a splicing kit and have not made a splice yet that I would show to anyone, or use on the boat. Yours is gorgeous.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 07:58:23

That is a Salsa Braid, which is a single braid hollow line. That makes splicing much easier because you don't have to line up the cover and the core.

This is still a very nice one and I think that the rigger could do a good job on double braid too.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 09:37:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by hewebb
 I purchased a splicing kit and have not made a splice yet that I would show to anyone, or use on the boat. Yours is gorgeous.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yeah, I have the splicing kit and the manual. It took me a long time to complete my first successful splice. It's been so long since I've done one - it would be like starting over. Hence, my farming it out to a rigger. I often get bogged down in all the minutia - best line for the application. This rigger has given me expert advise and tips I wouldn't have thought of on my own.

Edited by - OJ on 07/31/2013 09:40:45

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 10:14:02

Splices in single braid are surprisingly easy. Even if you have someone else take care of the splices in double braid it's worth trying singlebraid ones yourself.

A good project that involves many of them is replacing your lifelines with dyneema (Amsteel) ones.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 18:10:22

Has anyone made life lines out of it. If so hodes it handle chafing at the stanchion posts. Did you tie off to old gates? Any photos.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 20:34:00

By "it" do you mean Salsa line or dyneema? I don't think that 1/4" Salsa at ~2800lbs breaking strength would be considered strong enough. By comparison Amsteel Blue is rated to 5,400lbs in 3/16" and 8,600lbs in 1/4".

I made lifelines for my Pearson out of dyneema/amsteel, and I think it's on the todo list for the Catalina 25.

I slit vinyl tubing which covers the line where it goes through the stanchions. I also deburred the stanchions. The combo of the two keeps chafe down.

I used 1/4" amsteel for my upper lines and 3/16" for the lower. I used the CS Johnson pelican hooks that are made for this purpose for the gates. The Amsteel is spliced (brummel splice) around the D-ring on the pelican hooks turnbuckle. The other end is lashed to the ring on the bow pulpit using at least 8 turns of a dyneema cored small diameter line to keep the rated strength. The lashings allow you to adjust tension over time.

I like the setup a lot. Cord instead of wire lifelines hang out of the way nicely when the gates are open, they are comfortable to lean against (especially compared to bare stainless), and they are a lot easier to inspect than vinyl covered wire.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 21:10:31

Alex, I'd like to do this project. Do you have any photos or willing to give me a tour of the new boat?

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2013 : 07:39:58

I'll be at the boat today and will try to remember to take some photos. You're also welcome to contact me if you'll be in the Shilshole area and I'll show you around the new boat.

This is a pretty good and long article on the subject:
http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/lifelines.pdf

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2013 : 03:43:41

The splice that started this thread is practically art, but i didn't realize that Salsa was a hollow braid. Personally, i consider 8 and 16 plait solid braid splices a real PIA, hollow braid is pretty easy. Double braid, including a core to core splice, isn't bad after you've a done a few, but 3 three strand layed is the most enjoyable and therapeutic.

Practical Sailor is currently doing a long term test to see how long and how well the UHM lines hold up as lifelines.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 08/03/2013 03:58:12

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2013 : 07:33:05

delliotg: I forgot to grab photos when I was down there, I got distracted by great sailing and hanging out with dock mates. I'm away from the boat for a couple of weeks (while the sail gets some repairs) but will do it when I return.

There is enough long term evidence of how dyneema life lines (and standing rigging) hold up that I'm not that worried about it. It's a common setup in offshore racing boats. I can replace all 4 of mine in a couple of hours, and the material is a lot cheaper than stainless steel.

That splice looks like it is just a tail bury eye splice in hollow braid. It has an extremely nice looking whipping and they did a good job of hiding the lock stitches. That form of splice is very easy (you don't even really need a fid), but making that whipping look that nice does take practice. I wonder why the rigger did a tail bury instead of a brummel?

The only line that I've had to give up on splicing was the Dinghy Ultra Lite that I like for spinnaker sheets. The cover has almost no stretch and a core to core splice just didn't work for me. I also tried doing a core to core splice of it and amsteel to put an eye into an amsteel tail, and that was also nearly impossible. Brummel splices in hollow braid (what you use when making up lifelines for instance) are fun and easy enough that I can do them by memory.

A really fun splicing project that has almost no material costs is making up soft shackles. Once you've made a couple of them you'll find dozens of uses for them on the boat. This is a good set way of doing it:
http://l-36.com/soft_shackle_9.php

I like to split these to, as shown here:
http://l-36.com/halyard_shackle.php

I do the latter on my spinnaker pole topping lift and downhaul for instance. It would also work great for jib sheets or halyards.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2013 : 13:27:08

No sweat Alex, take some when you get a chance. That was a very good article you attached about how to go about it. I'd guess that my life lines are the factory originals, plus they're covered in vinyl, and they're a bit rusty, so it seems like a good time for them to be replaced.

Edited by - on

Merit 25
Deckhand

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13 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2013 : 12:35:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore

That splice looks like it is just a tail bury eye splice in hollow braid. It has an extremely nice looking whipping and they did a good job of hiding the lock stitches. That form of splice is very easy (you don't even really need a fid), but making that whipping look that nice does take practice. I wonder why the rigger did a tail bury instead of a brummel?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree, that splice is very easy to do with a loose single braid line like amsteel. However, the blended lines don't have nearly the same space inside the core that amsteel has. This makes it harder to bury, it also increases the diameter more when passing the line through itself. Salsa isn' too bad, swift cord is even tighter and harder. Both lines require you to tapper the tail before attempting to bury it.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I also tried doing a core to core splice of it and amsteel to put an eye into an amsteel tail, and that was also nearly impossible. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The load bearing core to core splice with cover is pretty tricky and requires some planning. My spin sheets are ultralite 5/16” to ultralite 1/4” then 1/8” dyneema. The bowman hates them, the trimmers love them, pick your poision. ;)

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Brummel splices in hollow braid (what you use when making up lifelines for instance) are fun and easy enough that I can do them by memory. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You can use either a straight bury or a brummel. The only advantage to a brummel is that you don't need to lock stitch it. Both are equal in strength. Another options that looks REALLY good, is a new(ish) product from NER called STS-WR2. http://www.neropes.com/product.aspx?mid=FBAE29336C3B26FE710A6F20A0FF186C&lid=8&pid=235
The dyneema cover should extend the life by almost double. However this is much more expensive than just the core alone.

In full discolsure, I'm a NER dealer and a rigger. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Edited by - on

Merit 25
Deckhand

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13 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2013 : 12:38:13

I guess I should also include that I'm the one who did the traveler line splices.

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