Association Forum - PSA from Catalina Direct

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

PSA from Catalina Direct

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

Member Avatar

USA
769 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/05/2013 : 08:20:17

I rec'd this PSA from Catalina Direct this morning. If you have a swing keel model take a close look...
Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Public Service Announcement:
Keel Cable Fatigue Causes C-25 To Sink.

Fellow Sailors,

I just received this email from a concerned customer. I think it's important enough to share with you immediately.
_____________________________________

Lowell,

I was the happy owner of a 1978, Catalina 25, swing keel, for about 12 years. I sailed it on the Long Island Sound, NY, and Great South Bay, NY, every summer and fall for the past 10-12 years. I had it out in rough weather and calm and loved it. Never a problem. I sold the boat in May, 2013.

In late July, the new owner called to let me know that the boat sank! Evidently, the swing keel broke free, cracked the hull and sank the boat, while she was on it at a mooring. She was with a sailing instructor and there were no injuries. But the boat was totaled. I felt awful! I don’t know how much she sailed it, but thank God she wasn’t out on it, under sail with guests, a mile or more from shore. I must say that I inspected the keel cable, visually, bi-annually, and cleaned it with wire brush. I never replaced it. It always seemed ok to me.

Have you ever heard of this happening before? Should a warning be sent out to all owners of that boat?

Thank you

John Fitzgerald,

Setauket, NY

PS. Feel Free to use my experience in any way you need, to alert others to any potential issues you see with this boat. You have my permission to publish this letter.
____________________________________

Whenever your boat is in the water, your keel cable is moving. Whether it is due to tidal currents, the motion of your boat in its slip, or your boat sailing on its mooring, your keel cable is constantly experiencing fatigue. You do not need to be sailing for your keel cable to be subject to wear. Unfortunately, a visual inspection does not reveal fatigue. This is why I recommend that your keel cable be replaced every two years. The problem of keel cable fatigue is not isolated to Catalina 25s. The concerned letter we received from John is equally important to Catalina 22 owners.

We try not to annoy you with too many emails, but this is very important to the safety of your boat and crew. I know that many of your boats are currently stored for winter, so I hope it's ok to remind you again in the spring. I have listed our keel cables below in case yours is in need of replacement.

Safe Sailing,

Lowell Richardson
Owner of Catalina Direct
Proud Catalina dealer for 39 years

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3476 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2013 : 09:10:32

<< This is why I recommend that your keel cable be replaced every two years. >>

Really... a steel cable fails in two years? I'd like to hear an engineer comment on that. Could it be the connection to the keel failed, or the winch brake?

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2013 : 09:20:26

Well the previous owner had it for 12 years and never replaced it. Probably a point between two and twelve years when the cable should have been addressed. This is a good reminder that visual inspection is not necessaruly a catch-all for what components need replacing. Including stays, shrouds and other components under stress. Glad no one was hurt. I wonder if John F. or the new owner ever participated here as keel cable maintenance is one of the most discussed issues on this forum.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2013 : 09:38:29

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2013 : 09:43:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 << This is why I recommend that your keel cable be replaced every two years. >>

Really... a steel cable fails in two years? I'd like to hear an engineer comment on that. Could it be the connection to the keel failed, or the winch brake?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">First, his recommendation is to replace it before it fails--obviously sound advice. Second, a boat on a mooring in an area like Port Jefferson Harbor (I'm guessing) is rocking a good part of its life. Each slight shift of the keel imparts wear on some part of the cable, and it and its attachment hardware are in salt water, which fosters electrolysis and crevice corrosion of stainless steel. Third, 12 years (plus how many before and after he owned it) is... I'll withhold comment.

Catalina's C-25 Owners Manual states: "Keeping a retractable-keel model in salt water for lengthy periods is not recommended." Unfortunately, if you do, you probably need to be following this forum to be aware of the critical need for periodic cable replacement. I found no recommendation in the manual, except for checking the cable for "broken strands or fraying." One of our long-time members had his boat sink twice at the dock, after regular cable replacements. (I don't know the period, but I'll bet it was less than 12 years.)

CD also sells an upgrade for the keel attachment hardware. I've read here of somebody drilling a hole in the keel for a robust shackle. We should make new SK owners of all of these measures, especially if they plan to leave the boat in the water. Unfortunately, the numbers suggest many of them don't participate in (or aren't aware of) this association.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/05/2013 09:51:37

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2013 : 09:58:58

I'm just curious, what if you changed out the cable for a Dyneema/Amsteel line instead? Has there been any testing for this? I don't know how the line would react to constant exposure to water or if there's any appreciable chafing to worry about.

Edited by - delliottg on 12/05/2013 10:00:16

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2013 : 10:29:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Really... a steel cable fails in two years? I'd like to hear an engineer comment on that. Could it be the connection to the keel failed, or the winch brake?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I haven't seen a cable that has failed, but my guess is that the failure might occur where the toggle is swaged to the cable.

On one of the cables that I replaced I found numerous "fish hooks", where the individual strands had parted.

That is a sad story, but I think the new owner has the responsibilty. One of the very first things I did when I purchased my boat was to replace the keel cable.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2402 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2013 : 16:32:27

I like Lowell a lot but he should have recommended that people checkout our association for anecdotal maintenance advice on many issues.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2013 : 17:58:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 I like Lowell a lot but he should have recommended that people checkout our association for anecdotal maintenance advice on many issues.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Seems like Lowell could contact Boat US and have them add it to their "recall" list. In fact, I'm not sure this issue shouldn't be addressed with a recall or something similar. Kind of like an airworthiness directive for airplanes.

Either or both of the above would make it more likely that swing keel owners would hear about the need for the cable and hardware to be replaced on a regular basis.

Does the Catalina Direct manual that's updated each year mention the need for this to be done?

Just a thought.

Edited by - GaryB on 12/05/2013 17:58:41

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2013 : 19:18:15

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2013 : 20:44:53

A recall is for something the manufacturer is responsible for. This is a maintenance issue, like the standing rigging that keeps the mast from falling on someone. Either way, how do you reach the thousands of second, third, fourth,... owners, most of whom don't know about CD or this association? I'm afraid common sense has to rule--a steel cable and hardware under water supporting 750 lbs. (half the weight), maybe in salt water... People who have no clue about that kind of stuff need to rely on people who do.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/05/2013 20:45:51

TCurran
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
588 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2013 : 04:01:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 [quote]
That is a sad story, but I think the new owner has the responsibilty. One of the very first things I did when I purchased my boat was to replace the keel cable.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Money quote, do not rely on the PO for your safety. The keel cable kit is $123.83. First thing I did on my C25 and C22. Also suggested replacing the cable when I sold my C25.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2013 : 07:39:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 A recall is for something the manufacturer is responsible for. This is a maintenance issue, like the standing rigging that keeps the mast from falling on someone. Either way, how do you reach the thousands of second, third, fourth,... owners, most of whom don't know about CD or this association? I'm afraid common sense has to rule--a steel cable and hardware under water supporting 750 lbs. (half the weight), maybe in salt water... People who have no clue about that kind of stuff need to rely on people who do.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Exactly!

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3476 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2013 : 07:41:34

I wonder what actually caused the keel to drop. I've never heard of a steel cable breaking, just connections and mechanical components of winches breaking/coming apart/loose.

The most common being the "clicker" spring that catches the winch from unwinding rusts and does not engage. Not sure how the "clutch" on a catalina 25 winch works.

CD probably recommends you replace the whole assembly to make sure every component is correctly implemented. Not a bad idea.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2402 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2013 : 13:10:17

I think sailing speaks to preventive maintenance types like most of us. We see the interaction of systems, the use of the laws of physics to make our avocation possible. We are "aware". There is a group of sailors for whom all of this is on an unknown plane. They do not know why the boat moves, have no idea about the elegance of moving in two fluids simultaneously and instead think sailing is about the wild life and the sound of the water on the hull; ah, idyllic oblivion. Those wonderful nuances are but a sliver of what it is to Sail.
If a PO does not have a lot of old parts that come with the boat then it is Caveat Emptor.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2013 : 20:03:04

The interval for replacing the keel cable depends a lot on how the boat is used, and whether it is kept in salt or fresh water. When I purchased our C-25, I inspected the cable and decided that it did not need replacing, kept the boat in a fresh water slip for 5 years with the keel down except for two haul-outs, and the cable did not look any different. The guy who bought the boat from me did replace the cable.
I just replaced the cable on our C-22 this year for the first time since we bought her in 1977. The cable was still okay, just starting to show some meat hooks, and the turning ball showed very little wear - I could keep it as a backup.
The point is that the replacement interval depends largely on how much you actually use the lifting mechanism.

Edited by - dmpilc on 12/06/2013 20:04:00

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.