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Swing Keel Cable Failure

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RAG Sailor
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144 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2013 : 14:35:25

Y'all are too sensitive. This is not an out and out mutiny. I intend to stay with the group. Catalinas bind us all. But please, indulge me and hear me out...

As a new owner I have found this site extremely helpful. But, I did notice that as a topic ages, the posters go off message. So if you are interested in a topic and you elect to be notified (and you have subscribed to several topics at a time) you will constantly be notified to go on line only to find information that is not of interest. I'm not saying that this information is bad, it's just doesn't relate to the topic. Also, at this point, less people are following the topic and the new, valuable (but not on topic) information isn't getting as wide a readership as it deserves. Case in point... you've probably saved BBarstow's boat this summer and maybe even some lives and possibly other skippers' boats and lives as well!!! But how many new readers are going to see that if it's buried under a topic that doesn't relate to the subject line.

What I am suggesting is if a thread ignites a tangent topic, don't post it under the current topic but start a new thread. It doesn't take any effort to click "new topic" button. That way you are sure to get a wider readership with greater participation which should spur even more ideas and solutions (which is what this forum is supposed to be all about).

So now, if y'all think I should walk the plank, well, so be it...

Edited by - on

ftworthsailor
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Response Posted - 12/17/2013 : 14:40:51

quote:
Originally posted by pastmember

When will we get a "like" button on this forum? I "like" Steve Milby. BBarstow... its all good. RAG, hang in there, we are worth it.

Here it is....

Edited by - ftworthsailor on 12/17/2013 14:55:26

RAG Sailor
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Response Posted - 12/17/2013 : 14:43:45

quote:
Originally posted by ftworthsailor

RAG said:"So now, if y'all think I should walk the plank, well, so be it..."

No..... Actually, I think you need to drink another bottle of RUM ! ! ! Aaaaarrrgghhhhhh!!!

Maybe it's the rum that's got me on this rant

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2013 : 14:44:45

Your point is valid, Ron--sometimes useful information and ideas become hidden under unrelated topic headers. On the other hand, sometimes these things come to mind as part of a "conversation"--it happens in many good conversations. I suspect if somebody searched on "keel up down" in the C-25 forum, the results would include this thread, perhaps they'd wonder why, and would find the tangential discussion (or "hyjack" as we call it).

I haven't subscribed to topics--I just have a bookmark to "Active Topics", which I scan from time to time--maybe too often for some people's tastes.

...and here I am, off-topic again!

Edited by - on

Davy J
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Response Posted - 12/17/2013 : 15:20:22

quote:
As a new owner I have found this site extremely helpful. But, I did notice that as a topic ages, the posters go off message.

This is like fine wine, it gets better with time......

Very many times, the original topic, posted by the OP, gets a life of it's own. A lot of useful info will come out of it, just go with the flow.....

Edited by - on

GaryB
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4321 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2013 : 18:45:58

quote:
Originally posted by Davy J

quote:
As a new owner I have found this site extremely helpful. But, I did notice that as a topic ages, the posters go off message.

This is like fine wine, it gets better with time......

Very many times, the original topic, posted by the OP, gets a life of it's own. A lot of useful info will come out of it, just go with the flow.....

Besides it gets you to read ALL of the threads, not just the one you're interested in. How much do you miss if you only read the ones you're interested in.

Edited by - GaryB on 12/17/2013 18:48:35

RAG Sailor
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144 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2013 : 06:23:16

quote:
Originally posted by GaryB

quote:
Originally posted by Davy J

quote:
As a new owner I have found this site extremely helpful. But, I did notice that as a topic ages, the posters go off message.

This is like fine wine, it gets better with time......

Very many times, the original topic, posted by the OP, gets a life of it's own. A lot of useful info will come out of it, just go with the flow.....

Besides it gets you to read ALL of the threads, not just the one you're interested in. How much do you miss if you only read the ones you're interested in.

This comment steps over the line. This, nor any other thread is not required reading. You my friend are not the sole authority on sailing. This will be my last say on this thread.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5932 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2013 : 07:39:54

quote:
Originally posted by RAG Sailor

quote:
Originally posted by GaryB

quote:
Originally posted by Davy J

quote:
As a new owner I have found this site extremely helpful. But, I did notice that as a topic ages, the posters go off message.

This is like fine wine, it gets better with time......

Very many times, the original topic, posted by the OP, gets a life of it's own. A lot of useful info will come out of it, just go with the flow.....

Besides it gets you to read ALL of the threads, not just the one you're interested in. How much do you miss if you only read the ones you're interested in.

This comment steps over the line. This, nor any other thread is not required reading. You my friend are not the sole authority on sailing. This will be my last say on this thread.

Whoa! Gary didn't step over any lines with his comment. He made a perfectly reasonable, non-aggressive suggestion on how any member can get the most enjoyment out of this forum.

This forum isn't owned by Catalina Yachts, and it isn't controlled by the government, or any other nameless, faceless entity. It belongs to all of us members, collectively, and we are free to adopt any rules we wish, or to operate without rules. We actually have few rules. We don't allow political talk, because it tends to detract from the friendliness and camaraderie that we aim for on this forum. We don't encourage discussions that are completely off the topic of sailing, but we don't prohibit them, because sometimes a member posts something that is completely off-topic, but that we all enjoy enormously. An example is the thread on the concert by the Air Force Band. We like to talk about sailing in general, and about Catalina sailing in particular. This forum operates the way it does because that's the way the members collectively like it. If they want to adopt strict rules that require all comments to be relevant to the thread, they are perfectly free to do so. Our approach imposes few limitations and thus encourages spontaneity, and I think most of us believe that helps keep the discussions fresh and lively and interesting.

If you think about it, we make it clear to newbies that they aren't required to be dues-paying members, but most of our regular contributors do so entirely voluntarily. That tells you the members like it here, and they believe it's worth it, and they're willing to pay to support the Association and the forum, even though they don't have to.

Take a deep breath, relax, participate, and enjoy the forum. You haven't been here long enough to get a feel for how and why it operates as it does. After a few months, you might see things very differently.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 12/18/2013 : 07:57:30

<< So now, if y'all think I should walk the plank, well, so be it... >>

Walk the plank in Memphis... Naw.. you'd just swim to shore...

Anyhoo.. welcome aboard..

Speaking of can of worms... I'm sure the engineers have already looked at this, but I wonder why not a bigger cable??

Edited by - redeye on 12/18/2013 10:52:16

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2013 : 08:17:41

quote:
Originally posted by GaryB

Besides it gets you to read ALL of the threads, not just the one you're interested in. How much do you miss if you only read the ones you're interested in.

I'll just add this to Steve's comments, with which I heartily agree: Did you notice the

in Gary's remark? Sometimes a written statement loses some of its meaning because the facial expression, chuckle, or raising of the glass is missing. Our little emoticons can help. I'm sure that was his intent.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2013 : 20:37:48

Should we start new threads when we digress? We probably should in many cases, but we probably won't do it as often as we should. I quit subscribing shortly after I started because of wandering conversations and just try to check in daily. None of this is related to the original thread, but I still enjoy reading it. I will also enjoy it if it gets back on track.

Edited by - on

pastmember
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Response Posted - 12/18/2013 : 22:13:47

quote:
Originally posted by redeye

Speaking of can of worms... I'm sure the engineers have already looked at this, but I wonder why not a bigger cable??

Flexibility for the winch radius?

Edited by - pastmember on 12/18/2013 22:14:18

Dave5041
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Response Posted - 12/18/2013 : 22:31:04

And how much do you oversize for safety and longevity for a 1500# load? My 5000# winch has .25" steel cable, not stainless, and 5/16 is 50% stronger in the same material and construction.

Edited by - on

cshaw
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Response Posted - 12/18/2013 : 23:00:43

quote:
Originally posted by Dave5041

And how much do you oversize for safety and longevity for a 1500# load? My 5000# winch has .25" steel cable, not stainless, and 5/16 is 50% stronger in the same material and construction.

Good questions.... But would a change in materials be equally as important? Does the steel cable being used suffer from corrosion/rust to the point it is weakened "too much"?

Seems like for those that might be interested, someone familiar with material properties could build a reasonable trade off table to illustrate strength vs materials and size and "time to corrode to lose strength" for fresh water and for salt/brackish. What is a reasonable factor of safety to require?

Chuck

Edited by - cshaw on 12/18/2013 23:02:02

Dave5041
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Response Posted - 12/19/2013 : 08:02:52

Turns out that 6 or 7x19 ss or galvanized 5/16 both have breaking strengths of around 9000#. That can go up significantly when you go to specialty filled or formed ropes with less deadspace I'll stay with stainless on the keel winch and galvanized on my electric.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 12/19/2013 08:09:47

CateP
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108 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2013 : 12:20:06

I will take pictures of my keel maintenance this spring when I replace the cable and turning ball on my 1983 STD. I am especially interested in how the cable is locked down on the winch. I called CD and they said there should be a screw down clamp on the outside of the drum. (Can't look at it now because she is under shrink wrap.)

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 12/19/2013 : 13:04:12

In another thread, someone wondered why Dyneema wouldn't be a suitable alternative to a steel cable, and nobody responded. It would appear to be strong enough, and, so far as I know, it doesn't rust or rot. It is susceptible to UV deterioration, but as a keel cable, it would be shielded from UV. It might be subject to chafe, but I can't imagine why it couldmn't be protected from chafing. Does anyone have any thoughts on using Dyneema instead of steel cable?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
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Response Posted - 12/19/2013 : 13:45:08

My major problem is the chafe issue over the turning ball. I would want to inspect far more frequently before I would be comfortable with it.

Edited by - on

pastmember
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Response Posted - 12/19/2013 : 15:36:32

quote:
Originally posted by CateP

I will take pictures of my keel maintenance this spring when I replace the cable and turning ball on my 1983 STD. I am especially interested in how the cable is locked down on the winch. I called CD and they said there should be a screw down clamp on the outside of the drum. (Can't look at it now because she is under shrink wrap.)

Cate, last time you mentioned this question I posted the photo of the back of the winch clearly showing the bolts and showing how to hold the bitter end of the cable in place with two vice grips. What more do you wonder about?

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 12/20/2013 : 05:09:48

And what substance might we put on the cable to reduce corrosion? I think of all the elevator cable I've seen and the grease coating I've seen on those cables.

"Gunslick", military LSA (Lubricant, Small Arms), CLP, white lithium grease???

And would the addition of the grease allow the bitter end to come loose?

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 12/20/2013 : 06:41:51

...Also, with a steel cable, is rust the only concern, or is there also a problem withj electrolysis, or dissimilar metals?

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 12/20/2013 : 06:47:21

quote:
Originally posted by redeye

And what substance might we put on the cable to reduce corrosion? I think of all the elevator cable I've seen and the grease coating I've seen on those cables.

"Gunslick", military LSA (Lubricant, Small Arms), CLP, white lithium grease???

And would the addition of the grease allow the bitter end to come loose?

The slick around your boat might draw some attention in the marina...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/20/2013 06:48:23

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 12/20/2013 : 06:54:52

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

...Also, with a steel cable, is rust the only concern, or is there also a problem withj electrolysis, or dissimilar metals?

Stainless steel and cast iron are not very close together on the galvanic scale--that could be the main driver for periodic replacement, especially in salt water where galvanic action is a bigger issue.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/20/2013 06:55:35

Dave5041
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Response Posted - 12/20/2013 : 09:25:34

I think the iron would be the donor, the stainless, depending on grade, should hold up pretty well against electrolytic with the keel. Crevice corrosion, sort of an internal electrolysis in the absence of oxygen is the big enemy. Does that mean that if you change your cable to often that the keel will corrode away?

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 12/20/2013 : 10:22:15

Yepper.. what would possibly stay on after hours of slicing through salt water.

Edited by - on

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