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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Raising Cat 250 mast

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Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/09/2013 : 08:48:42

My first mast raising was a bear!(I used to just walk up my Clipper Marine 26's mast) I made a gin pole since then for the next raising but still think it will be tough. Any input on this?
We have a free lift at Spud Point marina that I could use. Would this be a good alternative to manually raising it on the trailer before launch? I can see where I could probably secure the mast to the boat, put the rudder on and motor down to the lift. What is the response? Thanks, Chief

COMPASS ROSE C250WK
Tall Mast, Wing keel
PORT CHIEF, Bodega Bay Ca.
IE,EE,FCC lic #1890

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2013 : 12:04:21

We launch first then raise while in the water... because of overhead trees on our ramp. A gin pole and baby stays seems to be the most preferred way to do it... I use an A-frame and the mainsheet to pull. I therefore can launch and raise the mast myself. It's still better to have 2 people though.

This is the Capri 25, it also has a 31 foot mast, versus the 29 foot one on the 250.

Edited by - shnool on 12/09/2013 12:07:09

Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2013 : 12:34:21

John: Thanks for your info and picture. I made a free standing gin pole, so could use it as you have with your A frame. I notice the mast tie point is only about 6' up the mast rather than up to spreaders like the book says. Due to the better line angle over the gin pole from 6' does this draw upward on the mast better? This initial lifting was where I had the biggest problem due to low angle of lift with the draw line tied at the spreaders. Its more like you are trying to fold your mast in half rather than raising it! I used the new gin pole to lower the mast and with the lowering line over it there was not much angle over it with the tie way up at the spreaders. These poor lift angles make an ol' engineer crazy! ha How about the power lift? Have you ever messed with one or is it probably more trouble than it is worth? Thanks! Chief PS: Forgot to mention I have the 32' tall mast on my wing keel.

Edited by - Chief RA on 12/09/2013 12:37:47

DavidCrosby
Navigator

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USA
238 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2013 : 15:46:08

I am guessing that you do not have the factory trailer with the mast raising system. I do and I raise and lower the mast by myself. I find it to be a simple and reliable process.

The very first time I raised the mast though, I did not realize that the trailer winch has two speeds. In normal mode, I cranked until I was worn out and had to crank some more. Once I realized that I could put it into a high speed mode everything changed.

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2013 : 16:43:23

Search "gin pole" on the site. There are about a dozen different discussions. Here's one that I posted on:

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21203&whichpage=3

Give special consideration to the posts by C250 owners, since the design of the needed equipment is different than for the A-frames that C25 and Capri owners use. You need to keep the mast in column, but on the C250 you should use "baby stays." Catalina can make these up for you, but I just use ratchet straps. I use them on the mast AND on the gin pole to keep everything aligned.

From your description, it sounds like you need "crutch" aka "mast stepper" on your transom to accomplish the first 15 degrees or so of lift. You can buy one from Catalina Direct. I made one out of 2x4 and trailer roller. (see link) A person can do this instead, but he may have his hands over his head for a long time.

Many here make their gin poles out of collapsible metal piping, but that was pricey for my taste, so I used 2x4. Some use a block and tackle, but I use a trailer winch. First year or so I pulled one off my fishing boat trailer, but last few years I bought a heavier weight one dedicated to the task. See the pics in my link.

This link has some video of the system in action:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/1115957-post23.html

Edited by - on

Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2013 : 17:47:22

I'll try to answer all I can. Yes I do have the trailer with the raising system.(1998 C250) My stern pole raised to its top does not get the mast up to an angle that works well for the initial start of the lift. I have made a gin pole as well but still not high enough at 7' to get a good lift angle and it mounts at the base of the mast standing up. David may have helped by letting me know I probably have a 2 speed winch. I do have the baby stays and used them both on up and down of the mast. I would guess that the stern mount is not tall enough to be a "mast stepper" as that is where my problem lies. Rick, how tall a mast stepper do I need? I did watch your vidios and your system looks good! Rick, I may just start over and make a gin pole like yours. Chief

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2013 : 19:59:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Chief RA
 I'll try to answer all I can. Yes I do have the trailer with the raising system.(1998 C250) My stern pole raised to its top does not get the mast up to an angle that works well for the initial start of the lift. I have made a gin pole as well but still not high enough at 7' to get a good lift angle and it mounts at the base of the mast standing up. David may have helped by letting me know I probably have a 2 speed winch. I do have the baby stays and used them both on up and down of the mast. I would guess that the stern mount is not tall enough to be a "mast stepper" as that is where my problem lies. Rick, how tall a mast stepper do I need? I did watch your vidios and your system looks good! Rick, I may just start over and make a gin pole like yours. Chief
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This is all from memory, so I can't be 100% sure it's accurate. One of these days I should write everything up in one comprehensive post, instead of dribbling a little more info each time.

I believe my gin pole is 8' long. You don't want it to be so long that it gets caught in the bow pulpit. Also, it doesn't really make any sense having it so long that it's forward of the screw eye inside the anchor locker (which is where the strap or cable should attach). So having it longer than 7' should help you a little.

The winch gearing is important. The winch from my fishing boat was a 600 lb. winch, and was a bit difficult to control, but usable. I was concerned that if I accidentally let go, the crank would spin so fast I could not catch it. So when I decided I liked the setup enough to buy a dedicated winch, I got a 1100 lb. one (I think). I believe it is the [url="http://www.easternmarine.com/fulton-t1100-boat-trailer-hand-winch-t11000101"]Fulton T1100[/url]. This could make all the difference in having enough lifting force.

Do the calculations to make sure your winch strap (or cable) is long enough. Some winches come with a 12' strap, and my calculations showed that would not be long enough, so I bought a strapless winch, and then a separate 15' strap.

You'll see in the video that I had redundant attachments from the mast. I used both the jib halyard (recommended in the manual for early model C250s) AND used the main halyard to pull a (homemade) harness up under the spreaders (recommended in the manual for later model C250s). The mast attachment is so critical that I wanted to have redundancy. Be sure to have a messenger line attached to your main halyard.

The attachment to the mast is a bracket for a trailer spare tire, made to fit 4" square tubing. It's very old, but I liked its design better than the new ones I saw, so I pulled it off my fishing boat trailer.

I would estimate that my mast stepper is a little over 5 feet tall (measured from cockpit sole). I use the stepper only for lifting and lowering - not for storage. Instead I assemble a sawhorse under the mast for long-term storage. The sawhorse has 4' long legs (I cut 8' long 2x4s in half). I adjusted the mast stepper to hold the mast just high enough to allow me to assemble the sawhorse and set the mast down on it:

<center>

</center>

Note that you must walk the mast foot up to the bow before assembling the sawhorse. If you don't do this first, the spreaders are in the way, and the angle of the mast doesn't allow enough room to build the sawhorse. You can buy a cradle to hold the mast on the bow pulpit, but I made one from a short length of 2x4 and a couple of broom holders to keep it in place. I used these broom holders...

<center>

</center>

...but I like this one better because of the rubberized contact point:
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</center>

Just found a pic of this:

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</center>

Edited by - TakeFive on 12/09/2013 20:45:04

Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2013 : 21:04:26

Rick: Sorry to ask about old stuff for you guys but you taught me a lot! My depth of perception on these concepts have increased immensely and now I have the ability to fabricate as needed. This will make it so much better for me to "Get'er done"! If you ever need me for electronic help just holler. Thanks again, Chief

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2013 : 21:09:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Chief RA
 Rick: Sorry to ask about old stuff for you guys but you taught me a lot! My depth of perception on these concepts have increased immensely and now I have the ability to fabricate as needed. This will make it so much better for me to "Get'er done"! If you ever need me for electronic help just holler. Thanks again, Chief
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No problem, I want to write it all out so others can benefit. I tweak things a little every year, so there's always something new. One of these day's I'll search everything I wrote and all my pictures, and consolidate it down into a single cohesive narrative.

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Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2013 : 08:36:58

Takefive: I agree that you should formalize your procedure as we both know this is traumatic until you have such detailed information. No less important for our people is the launching and retrieval system. Without my 5' truck reciever extension I just had made the launching and retrieval with just the trailer extender can be a nightmare as well! Once these 2 procedures are mastered it becomes "smooth sailing". ha Its great to have access to such quality people like you when we need assistance! Chief

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