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Crew Overboard - The Real Thing

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/26/2014 : 08:10:34

Here's a (long) [url="http://www.soundingsonline.com/dispatches/291757-video-crew-overboard"]video[/url] of an event on the coast of Spain--an illustration of how things can get crazy at the mouth of an inlet where the big ocean swells are stacking up, particularly when a rogue arrives, which appears to be the case here.

The article suggests where you can jump to the action parts.

It appears that whoever is left on the boat doesn't know what do do about those who aren't... The rescuers that show up later are brave souls!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage before going over to the Dark Side (2007-2025); now boatless for the first time since 1970 (on a Sunfish).

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4025 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2014 : 11:47:23

Not a good way to introduce your new friends to sailing....
Large breaking following seas, Did he really think he could out run them?

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2014 : 13:39:27

The crew that remained on the sailboat showed good judgment in not trying to recover the MOBs. After you have been rolled once by a breaker, that should tell you that you shouldn't go back.

What bothered me is that the people in the water didn't appear to make any effort at all to swim toward the entrance. They just waited where they were until someone came out and picked them up. It appeared that, if they had been able to swim a little closer toward the entrance channel, they would have been in slightly more sheltered waters, where the recovery boat would have been in less jeopardy. You can't always tell from a video, but it might be that one of them was injured, and they couldn't swim, but if they could, they certainly should have, especially after the rescue boat left once and had to come back. It might also be that one of them wasn't wearing a pfd, and they had to stay with him to keep him afloat. If that's true, it was inexcusable negligence to try to run that entrance without everyone wearing a pfd.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 02/26/2014 13:40:49

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2014 : 14:46:53

It's easy for me to judge from thousands of miles away and long after the fact but, what the hell were they riding up on the bow for? Not smart.

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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1484 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2014 : 14:55:07

This is way outside my experience...what should they have done - how should they have brought the boat in?

Edited by - jerlim on 02/27/2014 14:55:28

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 02/27/2014 : 16:33:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jerlim
 This is way outside my experience...what should they have done - how should they have brought the boat in?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">IMO, they should have hove to outside until the conditions abated. Those conditions wouldn't go on indefinitely. The wind strength would abate, or the direction would change, or the tide would go slack, taking tidal current out of the equation. They didn't need to wait until the seas became perfectly calm. They only needed to wait until the conditions improved enough so that they wouldn't roll the boat. Time was on their side.

Only necessary crew should have been in the cockpit, and they should have been tethered to the boat and wearing pfds. Some might disagree, but I think the rest of the crew should have been below, with all hatches dogged down, to ensure that water wouldn't get inside the boat, even if it rolled over.

When we arrive at the destination, we are anxious to get in, shower, relax, have a drink and a good dinner, sightsee, etc. But our overriding concern should be to get in safely, and that can be overlooked when you're thinking about all the good things you're going to enjoy when you get there.

A year ago, I arrived at the entrance to my marina just as a big, black storm cloud blew over. I anchored outside the entrance. While waiting for the storm to abate, I saw a sailboat try to leave the marina, but it was blown onto the rocky jetty.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2014 : 16:51:34

One thing that caught my eye was a current that apparently strongly opposed the incoming seas. That stacks each wave up to become a wall. Presumably, the sailors new the tide cycle and could predict when that current would go slack and even reverse.

Inlets are often treacherous--it's often important to hang out outside (or inside) and watch the conditions, as well as other boats transiting. That plus knowing the currents can be critical to a safe transit.

Regarding the people in the water, I saw signs of swimming... But we can't see where they were (or should have been) swimming to. Getting too close to a jetty with those seas crashing in could get you crushed on the rocks--it definitely happens. The best thing might have been to let the current take them away from the surf line while conserving their energy, but we can't see enough to judge that. They probably couldn't see enough, either.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2014 : 17:23:45

Jerry... You're probably aware of one infamous place in your neighborhood where big winds can oppose big currents and seas: Plum Gut, where Long Island Sound and Block Island Sound try to exchange water four times a day. Friends of mine have some pix of 5-6' vertical walls of water around their 30-footer in the Gut... They'll be more careful in timing their passages there!

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2014 : 17:40:13

Lots of discussion on Sailnet about this. A couple of things that they pointed out:

The COB came out of the cockpit. The guys on the foredeck and by the mast hung on and stayed aboard. Still, they should not have been there, but nevertheless it's interesting that they were the ones who stayed aboard.

It's easy to think that they should all have been tethered, but long tethers could have been fatal in this situation.

A couple guys on Sailnet claim that the current was not ebbing.

Note that just before the boat is swamped, white water comes over the jetty from above. That should tell you something about how big this wave was.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2014 : 17:50:25

Couch based quater-backing.... There was no need for crew on the bow or sat on the cabin top midships. In those conditions, everyone above decks should have been tethered, no excuses!

The boat seemed to know the area, guessing, they turned 360 outside, perhaps looking for quiet wave timing.

The boat popped up beautifully! Thankfully.

The small boat that came to the rescue were putting themselves at risk, brave, welcomed, but it would have been a worse situation if that little boat was tossed over.

The sailboat seemed to be trying to put stuff overboard. Any lines overboard in those conditions would have been a hazard.

Just glad that all worked out well.

Anyone know what the date was and location? Thinking about the hypothermic concerns.

Did you see the two people on the harbor side watching? Not sure they could even see the COB.

The best part about this whole situation is that we can all learn!

Paul

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 02/27/2014 : 17:58:42

A couple more things - purely speculation:

Since the COB came from the cockpit, it's possible that the captain went overboard, and took all his expertise with him. So it's understandable that they did not know what to do.

The powerboat took a huge risk. Not sure the COB had PFD, or weren't injured. But if they were in good shape, would it have been better for the powerboat to throw them a line and tow them slowly into the more protected inlet first? Or could another wave have just separated them and prolonged their exposure and risk of going up on the rocks?

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2014 : 18:32:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive
 ...A couple guys on Sailnet claim that the current was not ebbing...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Starting around 8:45, I see evidence of a strong left-to-right current where the waves are passing in front of the jetty behind the swimmers. It's almost stopping the waves and peaking them so the wind blows spray off the tops. It might not be ebbing out of the inlet, but it appears to me to be opposing the wind and seas along the shore. We sea the same thing in The Race and Plum Gut in my neighborhood, and it's something to stay away from.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5908 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2014 : 18:41:11

Right after it happened, one of the COBs started to swim toward the boat, but turned back and swam back to the others. One of the COBs was kicking his legs and flailing his arms alot, and that made it look to me like he might not have had a pfd, and needed to tread water to stay afloat. I think the one who started to swim toward the boat turned back to help the others keep the one without a pfd afloat. Even the ones with pfds were struggling when the waves broke over them.

I also thought about throwing them a line and towing them into calmer water, but I suspect the guys in the power boat were afraid the line might tangle the prop, and if that happened, they'd all be in more trouble. If they had a floating polypro line, that would have been better.

Waves were still periodically breaking where the COBs were, and it looked like the power boat was going to get pooped a couple times.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 02/27/2014 : 18:46:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive
 ...A couple guys on Sailnet claim that the current was not ebbing...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Starting around 8:45, I see evidence of a strong left-to-right current where the waves are passing in front of the jetty behind the swimmers. It's almost stopping the waves and peaking them so the wind blows spray off the tops. It might not be ebbing out of the inlet, but it appears to me to be opposing the wind and seas along the shore. We sea the same thing in The Race and Plum Gut in my neighborhood, and it's something to stay away from.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Maybe, but it also looks like it could be the undertoe from the approaching waves. Note that when the wave hits, it takes the swimmers back to about where they were before, then the undertoe sucks them out again. But you are right, there is a some net motion of the swimmers from left to right.

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jerlim
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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 20:31:28

Dave - Am all too aware of the Gut...went through there the hard way in a friends 35' Bayliner, glad we had that power (twin 300 hp)...we were OK, but it impressed me enough that I'm never going there w/ Whisper...

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 20:53:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jerlim
 ...Am all too aware of the Gut...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Never heard of it, but I looked it up on my chart. Wow! 5+ knot peak current, and goes from 188 ft deep to 17 ft in about 0.2 nm. That's gotta stir up some big breakers and/or standing waves!

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 21:54:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jerlim
 ...Am all too aware of the Gut...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Never heard of it, but I looked it up on my chart. Wow! 5+ knot peak current, and goes from 188 ft deep to 17 ft in about 0.2 nm. That's gotta stir up some big breakers and/or standing waves!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I've been through in calm conditions--you just want to plan...

If you think that terrain is interesting, look at The Race by Race Rock Light just off the western tip of Fishers Island. My recollection is 280' underwater granite cliffs that come up to something like 80'... I've watched many times as they throw water into the air during full ebb and full flood, and create some interesting whirlpools and chop, making my boat move quickly and sharply under foot! Huge stripers (like 60 lbs) hang out along the cliffs and feed on the fish being beat up on the rocks. Sailboats had better time their passages--Like Plum Gut, it can be like a sling-shot or a stone wall (but longer). And if the wind is opposing the tide, you need to not be there.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/01/2014 07:15:20

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4025 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2014 : 09:01:25

The Columbia river bar where the Columbia river meets with the Pacific is my favorite.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7N83LhIigE

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bigelowp
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USA
1797 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2014 : 20:23:20

So for those of us who may never be "their" . . . The lessons are to wear PDF's; be tethered in rough conditions; and remember you never know when you will suddenly be in rough conditions.

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pastmember
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Response Posted - 03/07/2014 : 13:09:03

Here in Kansas the lesson is when you fall overboard, stand up and walk to shore.

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