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Princess Stove

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/14/2014 : 19:22:39

JD is 9 years old. We replaced the Seaward Princess Stove a few years ago as the thermo couple failed. That resulted in the Gas shutting off as soon as the start sequence was complete. So it would light, but as soon as the thermo couple by-pass was released, the flame would go out.

Now our 2nd unit has the same problem. If I hold the bypass open for 30 seconds, it might activate the TC. If not, the flame goes out.

Not cheap! over $300 and Seaward has sold out to Whale. The stove appears to be out of production. Can still find them on E-Bay etc. but it's a dying duck.

So thinking of alternatives.

Electric is really not an option. Although we carry a 1700watt genny, it would be a pain to have to flash it up each meal time.

Other options include Pressurized/non-pressurized Alcohol stoves.

Are these what are referred to hereabouts as Curtain Burners?

We typically cook about 10 meals each trip, so a cooker is required.

Any ideas?

Paul

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2014 : 19:39:36

It's pretty routine on these things to have to hold the knob down for as much as 60 seconds. That seems to be what it takes to get the thermocouple and surrounding ceramics/metal up to a high enough temperature to sustain the gas flow. I need to do that on my Princess, and I also have the same issue with the pilot light on my gas log at home.

It sounds to me like your stoves - both current and previous - might not be defective.

You really don't want an alcohol stove of any type, especially pressurized. There is a reason they're called curtain burners.

As for other ideas, I really love my Magma gas grill. It keeps the heat out of the cabin.

Edited by - TakeFive on 07/14/2014 19:40:51

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2014 : 20:07:19

Actually, the non-pressurized Origo alcohol stove is widely considered the safest boat stove of all. It doesn't flare up and "burn curtains," it can't leak explosive gas, and the flame can be easily extinguished with water. (It's normally extinguished by the damper in the stove.) However, it doesn't cook as hot or control the heat as well as gas or pressurized alcohol, and generates water vapor and some fumes.

My preference is a portable butane stove I can use in my galley or in the cockpit. It cooks like propane, uses canisters that look like spray paint cans, and stows almost anywhere in its case. I've also used it during power failures at home, where I have an electric stove I don't really like anyway. My butane stove is branded Kenyon, but there are other brands on the same unit. I recommend the pot-holder accessory on a boat.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/14/2014 20:40:47

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2014 : 20:21:22

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

Actually, the non-pressurized Origo alcohol stove is widely considered the safest boat stove of all. It doesn't flare up and "burn curtains," it can't leak explosive gas, and the flame can be easily extinguished with water. However, it doesn't cook as hot or control the heat as well as gas or pressurized alcohol, and generates water vapor and some fumes.

I've never owned or used an alcohol stove. But my reading on the topic indicated that their bad rap comes from a flame that's so dim that you often can't tell if it's burning. Accidents have happened from people thinking the flame was out when it wasn't.

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

...My preference is a portable butane stove I can use in my galley or in the cockpit. It cooks like propane, uses canisters that look like spray paint cans...

The 1996-1997 vintage C250s, came with a butane-fueled Princess stove that uses the Kenyon paint cans. Prior to that, the C250 stoves used CNG canisters, and after that they went to the LPG bottle in the cockpit locker.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2014 : 04:21:17

JD has the Princess (Butane cans) cooker.
Thanks for the info Rick. I have been used to holding the flow control in the bypass position for just a second or two, so I guess I'm spoilt!

As you said, there may be nothing wrong with the old unit either! Still have it complete. I might pull it out of the box, pop a paint can in it and see how it goes.

We also have a magma grill, but it's not too successful on the C250. Even sheilded by the cabin, we have to wrap foil around it to prevent wind messing with it. Great for ashore though.

Paul

Edited by - on

kc5dlo
1st Mate

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USA
71 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2014 : 05:02:57

Can the thermocouple be cleaned or replaced?

Edited by - on

Cerulean II
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2014 : 06:46:49

I removed the plastic trim ring around the base and mine started working as expected again. I ordered new rings from the supplier and they don't seem to fit as well, so I just left them off.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2014 : 07:06:55

quote:
Originally posted by britinusa

JD has the Princess (Butane cans) cooker.

Interesting. Did Catalina switch back to the butane stove for all their later model C250s, or was your boat a one-off special request?

quote:
Originally posted by britinusa

I have been used to holding the flow control in the bypass position for just a second or two, so I guess I'm spoilt!

I almost never use it, and just test it once a year or so, so my memory is fuzzy. I vaguely remember only having to hold it down for a few seconds in the past, but a couple weeks ago when prepping for a cruise it kept going out unless I held it down for a minute. So I see similar variability, but just assumed that under certain conditions it takes longer. It could have a lot to do with whether there's a breeze coming in the companionway.

quote:
Originally posted by britinusa

We also have a magma grill, but it's not too successful on the C250. Even sheilded by the cabin, we have to wrap foil around it to prevent wind messing with it...

Magma has at least two different models of the round kettle. I've seen Amazon reviews that mention this problem with the cheapest model. I found a great deal on ebay for the more expensive dual-wall model, and it has no problems in the wind. I believe that with the dual walls, they stagger the air holes so the wind speed is cut down. As usual, more money might solve your problem.

quote:
Originally posted by Cerulean II

I removed the plastic trim ring around the base and mine started working as expected again. I ordered new rings from the supplier and they don't seem to fit as well, so I just left them off.

Could you snap a picture and post it? I'm not sure what you're talking about here, but would like to understand.

Edited by - TakeFive on 07/15/2014 07:08:30

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2014 : 11:57:02

quote:
Originally posted by kc5dlo

Can the thermocouple be cleaned or replaced?

Seems the answer is yes!

I took the old unit apart to figure out how the thermocouple system worked.

The gas needle valve appears to stay open when the thermocouple is live. When I removed the valve assembly from the old unit, it was sticky and I wondered if that was the problem with the newer unit installed in JD.

I removed the stove from the boat and separated the top of the unit from the lower portion to get access to the thermocople valve assembly. It's held in with two screws, one also connects the ground to the control assembly.

The valve did not want to come out, 'sticky'! Once out, I cleaned it with some WD40, air dried it and replaced it.

Tested and the gas stayed lit after releasing the control knob from the by-pass position.

Did a bubble leak test, nothing! phew!

Also checked to ensure the control valve was not stuck in the open position: Operated the control knob so that gas was flowing but did not fire off the ignitor. Kept the knob in the bypass postion to do another leak check, I could hear the gas flowing into the heating element, but no leaks around the control assembly. Next I released the knob from the bypass position, but left it turned full on. The gas flow stopped. So the control valve is not stuck in the open position.

Last check, lit the gas, turned it to low and blew it out, gas flow stopped.

Cleaned up and happy it's working in time for our next long weekend trip.

Paul

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2014 : 16:22:22

Glad to hear the problem is fixed. The best part is $00.00 spent on the repair!

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2014 : 02:39:09

The best a safest solution is the non-pressurized Dometic Origo alcohol stoves. I had two of them. Safe and fast cooking (2kW of heat).
Now I have this one http://www.dometic.com/enuk/Asia-Pacific/Middle-East/Products/Marine/Galley-Appliances/Stoves/Product-display/?productdataid=69204.

Perfect even for steaks

The only problem is the fuel. I have bad experience with all that alcohol cleaners and technical ethanol from the grocery stores. It has very bad and stinky additives.

Now I found some good online source of 99% "bio" denaturated ethanol for home fireplaces and works perfectly.

The other small problem is a little of the soot on the pans, so you have to be careful where you put it.

Edited by - on

Cerulean II
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2014 : 08:17:41

quote:
Originally posted by TakeFive

quote:
Originally posted by britinusa

JD has the Princess (Butane cans) cooker.

Interesting. Did Catalina switch back to the butane stove for all their later model C250s, or was your boat a one-off special request?
quote:
Originally posted by britinusa

I have been used to holding the flow control in the bypass position for just a second or two, so I guess I'm spoilt!

I almost never use it, and just test it once a year or so, so my memory is fuzzy. I vaguely remember only having to hold it down for a few seconds in the past, but a couple weeks ago when prepping for a cruise it kept going out unless I held it down for a minute. So I see similar variability, but just assumed that under certain conditions it takes longer. It could have a lot to do with whether there's a breeze coming in the companionway.
quote:
Originally posted by britinusa

We also have a magma grill, but it's not too successful on the C250. Even sheilded by the cabin, we have to wrap foil around it to prevent wind messing with it...

Magma has at least two different models of the round kettle. I've seen Amazon reviews that mention this problem with the cheapest model. I found a great deal on ebay for the more expensive dual-wall model, and it has no problems in the wind. I believe that with the dual walls, they stagger the air holes so the wind speed is cut down. As usual, more money might solve your problem.

quote:
Originally posted by Cerulean II

I removed the plastic trim ring around the base and mine started working as expected again. I ordered new rings from the supplier and they don't seem to fit as well, so I just left them off.

Could you snap a picture and post it? I'm not sure what you're talking about here, but would like to understand.

Sorry that I did not reply earlier, My Daughter has been in the hospital with complications with her pregnancy. Grandson is finally here and 5 days after he was born she finally gets to go home. (been in the hospital for 3 week).

The trim ring is the plastic ring that is right underneath the knob use to turn the stove on / off and light by holding down. I think it was not allowing the knob to be fully depress with the trim ring attatched, I just removed the know and then removed the trim ring and the knob depresses a little futher and allows the stove to stay lit. With the trim peace installed, you could depress the knob and light the stove, but as soon as you released the knob, the flame would go out. With the trim peace removed, the stove stayed lit when releasing the knob. I don't know why this is working this way, but everything seems to work and the auto shutoff works as well.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2014 : 10:23:07

quote:
Originally posted by Cerulean II

...With the trim peace removed, the stove stayed lit when releasing the knob...

If there's a reason to want the trim ring, could you insert a little piece of something into the bottom of the hole in the knob so that, when installed, it projects away from the surface a just enough that you can depress it as necessary with the trim ring on?

Edited by - on

Cerulean II
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2014 : 18:20:12

I have just left the trim ring off. I think it is meant to protect liquids from running through the hole that the know is using. We just try to be careful with that area. It is only raised maybe an 1/8th of an inch, so it would only protect against minor spills anyway.

Edited by - on

Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2014 : 19:32:46

Hi Guys! I am on my boat in the marina at Bodega Bay. Been on board for about a month and spent a week at anchor in Tomales Bay recently. I have discovered the way to cure the grill wind problem and consequent low heat is to use lava rock in the grill! It works wonders for these small grills! Later, Chief

Edited by - on

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