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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Used Furler

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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/08/2014 : 05:48:16

I just wanted to see some opinions on taking a look at a used CDI furling unit. Not sure what model it is. I was thinking it might be nice to pick up this unit and refresh it over the winter then when the mast comes down for rewiring/ lines led aft I could pop it on at the same time. I think that there is the potential to save some money and still do it right like this, my worry is that I get the unit, then it needs $500-$600 worth of parts to be any good at which point I might as well buy new. The unit came off of another Cat25 an the guy selling it says it has aluminum foils which seems strange because the ones they sell now come with plastic I believe. Also, in trying to identify it from the couple pictures I did not recognize the halyard top fitting. Seller says the foil links may need to be replaced and there is some drum guard bending.

Is this just me trying to make something from nothing, or is this sound feasible? Just tryin to find out if im crazy.

{Edit}Just looked and it seems that CDI used Aluminum foil sections for the reefer units. So possibily that?

Pics.

Edited by - DavidBuoy on 08/08/2014 05:50:59

cyclenski23
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2014 : 06:35:33

mine are aluminum, i have the ff4/6

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2014 : 06:51:35

You might want to try searching for discussions on CDI... I vaguely recall somebody needing some sort of connecting pieces for the aluminum foil sections and finding they're out of production and out of stock. I could be wrong, but it could be a dead-end.

Edited by - on

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
468 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2014 : 06:52:23

David:

The drum looks like my own old Harken, so I'll pass this along; even if the unit in question is from another mfgr. this will likely apply.

The aluminum foil is almost certainly sectional, and at the joints between individual sections there would be components inside that slide into both adjoining sections to bridge the gap; both sections would probably be fastened to these solid couplers with set screws or small, countersunk oval-head screws. These couplers will probably be troublesome in removing/disassembling the foil. The forestay would likely have to be cut, in order to slide the foil off, because these couplers fit closely around the cable and they won't slide off over any kind of swaged end fitting. The foil sections will also probably be tightly fit onto the couplers, and the screws that secure them may be challenging to remove.

That having been said, once all of the couplers have been removed and the foils are disassembled, they can probably be cleaned up and put back into service.

The other challenge will be at the drum. Your forestay will have to have a terminal swaged onto it that fits this unit. Obtaining a compatible fitting may not be difficult, I hope, but it would have to be swaged on by a professional rigger - this is too critical a connection to try to DIY it unless you're able to substitute swageless (ie. Norseman or Sta-lok) fittings, as I was. The same goes for the eye fitting at the top end of the stay (visible in the lower photo).

Lastly, aluminum components on recreational marine systems should not be expected to last forever, and as they degrade they become increasingly compromised. This process is accelerated in a salt environment, but it happens on freshwater boats, too. It's especially bad wherever stainless steel components (ie. screws) are in contact with unprotected aluminum. Look this system over carefully before paying for it.

If it were me I would NOT buy an old, used furling system unless it came with a boat I was buying. The financial savings would be tempting, but in the long run it would probably be too compromised to be truly a "good deal." A jib furling assembly is an important system, which you use every time you go sailing, and it is subject to a lot of stress. Even after the initial investment of time (and the inevitable frustration), you will more likely experience partial failures over time that need to be repaired (I speak from personal experience).

There is a personal satisfaction that some of us enjoy that derives from fixing something up ourselves, but that satisfaction is often tempered by the annoyances of having to tolerate something that's never quite "like new" and may be more likely to fail than equipment that was acquired brand new. I'd suggest you consider this before proceeding. From your posts in this forum you are clearly an active user of your boat, David, so I'd suggest that such an important system as a jib furler is not something to compromise on if you don't have to.

If you do go forward with this, and if this is an old Harken (Mark I) I can send you some documents that will be invaluable in servicing it; I was able to obtain a manual that shows all of the internal components and explains how to assemble the system when new, and someone else posted some pictures of what to service for regular maintenance.

Good luck.

PS: I just realized that the top-end fitting in your lower photo is for an internal halyard, so it's not a Harken. I think I've been reading in this forum that CDI used an internal halyard. Nevertheless, most of the advice I've offered will still be applicable. And, anyway, it was free, and you know what they say about free advice...

Edited by - Lee Panza on 08/08/2014 07:07:54

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2014 : 07:10:16

I was not aware that CDI used aluminum foils. However, the advantage to a CDI furler, in my opinion, is that it did not have an aluminum foil. The mast can be raised or lowered without having to worry about bending the foil.

Edited by - on

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2014 : 08:27:56

Funny thing about this is that the admiral doesn't want a furler, or lines led aft. She's afraid if I can single hand it easily, I'll leave and won't come back because I don't need her lol. I guess I'll keep dragging the wench around... for now :)

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2014 : 09:20:04

The furler that came on our boat was an off-brand . . . so off-brand that I don't remember the name! Good for you thinking ahead about replacement parts costing nearly as much as a new/complete system.

After looking over a dock neighbor's newer gen Harken and all of its plastic parts I looked around for a first gen model. Found a Harken Unit O, Mark I on the swap meet here. By the time I replaced missing parts I did indeed have as much money invested as a new system. I didn't care though because I ended up with probably the best furler Harken ever built.

The old (and complete) system went to an individual (for a steal) that was rehabbing a 27' boat. Nice part is two furling systems got recycled into fully functioning units.

Edited by - OJ on 08/09/2014 10:49:24

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2014 : 12:43:40

Buy a CDI FF4 new. Go without the ball bearing upgrade to save money, get the upgrade the next year. I am a gear snob and was amazed at what a good furler/reefer the CDI really is for the C25, they are a perfect match. You will not regret spending the money on a new one.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4317 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2014 : 08:07:43

quote:
Originally posted by pastmember

Buy a CDI FF4 new. Go without the ball bearing upgrade to save money, get the upgrade the next year. I am a gear snob and was amazed at what a good furler/reefer the CDI really is for the C25, they are a perfect match. You will not regret spending the money on a new one.

I agree! It will never work like a new one.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2014 : 08:29:32

I had a Hood furler with a sectioned aluminum foil (which "Voyager" Bruce has now been wrestling with)--I think there's something to be said for the plastic foil of the newer CDI FF4. I have yet to hear of problems with it, but have heard many stories of stress and anxiety over aluminum foils, their connections, installing them on new forestays, damaging them while lowering, raising, or storing masts,..... "Plastic" never sounds as robust as "metal", but sometimes it's just better for a particular application.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5453 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2014 : 09:13:11

Dave - thanks to Scott "Islander's" help last spring, the Hood furler with its sectioned aluminum foil is back to work and working fine! Scott and I took down the mast and scratched our heads for about an hour until we figured out that each furler section was held together by pop-riveted "joints" between the segments, and included plastic spacers inside each section to hold the wire centered inside the section. Once we drilled out the rivets, the entire assembly came off the forestay without having to cut the swaged end fitting. Good thing, as I had the new CD forestay with a swaged-on fitting that slipped through the parts for reassembly using pop-rivets.
I was extremely lucky on two counts - Scott is a very careful and thoughtful guy who is excellent with tools and I did not bend the foils, even a little.
What I later found out is this: the spinner/slider that you attach the head of the sail to and raise with the jib halyard has to slide PERFECTLY freely up and down the foil. If there's even the slightest kink, ding or crease in the foil, the slider will get to that point and stop dead - jammed in place. You won't be able to raise or lower it without undue force.
How do I know? I had the head of one pop-rivet extend about 1/4" outside the diameter of the foil section. To fix it, I had to drop the mast a 2nd time to sandpaper the head down to smooth it out flush with the foil.
Maybe other furlers are not as critical, but the slider on the Hood is absolutely snug around the furler. A kink or bend would be fatal. That's where a plastic part really shines!

Edited by - Voyager on 08/09/2014 09:16:10

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2014 : 16:19:13

My Catalina 25 came with a CDI furler that had aluminum sections. Parts are no longer available, it was basically scrap metal and nothing more.

On a 25' boat I greatly prefer hank on sails to a furler. Even on a 30' boat I think I prefer hank-on sails.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2014 : 06:56:44

I loved my hank ons in my 50s and loved my foil in my 30s, I accept a furler in my 60s

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2014 : 09:54:53

quote:
Originally posted by pastmember

...I accept a furler in my 60s

...even with that little fractional Starwind headsail!

(At our age, the smaller the boat, the less you might want to have to scramble up on the foredeck.)

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2014 : 10:15:19

Exactly, that foredeck is smaller every year.

Edited by - on

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