Association Forum - Drone example

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Drone example

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

3478 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/31/2014 : 10:12:36

I thought you drone guys might like this.. where I'm kinda from ( among other places )

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L63Tv3LdNUw"]Panama City Beach[/url]

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2014 : 11:16:09

wow, images are so stable you'd think the camera was sitting on a tripod

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3478 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2014 : 12:09:32

<< stable >>

yepper and wait till you see median image stacking. which I'm sure will be coming to prosumer product soon... we use it in medical applications.

I love the end, we were trying to figure out where he probably was and guessed pretty close..

Edited by - redeye on 12/31/2014 12:11:58

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2015 : 11:11:07

Wonder what the folks at Tyndall Field think about that thing being up there... Looks like around 500'.

"You're clear to land on 13-right... Wait a minute!....."

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3478 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2015 : 12:59:40

I'm thinkin you get that drone near the flight path and they're gonna swat it down... Or and u get to meet one of their drones. And the MPs.

Edited by - redeye on 01/02/2015 13:05:50

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4317 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2015 : 19:41:40

Looking at the VFR Sectional chart for that area, the park is well outside the 5 mile radius of Tyndall Field and as long as the drone operator stays below 400' (questionable) and away from populated areas (which appears the operator is doing by flying over the beach) would be legal to fly as it stands today.

When the FAA releases its new regulations that may change.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2015 : 22:03:38

quote:
Originally posted by GaryB

Looking at the VFR Sectional chart for that area, the park is well outside the 5 mile radius of Tyndall Field...

...ya, by maybe two miles.

Tyndall controller: "Major, we have an unidentified 6 miles out at 310 degrees and 500 feet. He does not respond. Your order."

(The cheap radar on my boat might pick that up at that distance--I suspect the USAF would.)

So here's the question: Should we have one drone for every individual Amazon, UPS, and FedEx package being delivered in the USA, as well as one for every photographer and a dozen for every news outlet in every city, plus a few thousand in each metropolitan area for hobbyists looking into neighbors' properties and homes? That's where we're apparently headed... (Laugh--nobody foresaw high-powered computers in all of our pockets in 2014, being used to communicate by text message while driving cars, either.)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/02/2015 22:10:48

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4317 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2015 : 00:01:46

Two miles is two miles. LOL!

I recently read through a large portion of the near-miss reports submitted to the FAA on incidents involving regular aircraft and drones. A large majority were reports by aircraft that were 1000 - 2000 feet above a drone and in a lot of cases the drones were off to one side from several hundred yards to as much as a mile.

In one of the recent reports at Dulles an airliner was approx. 2,000 feet AGL on final approach and I believe approx. 3 miles from the runway and the pilot reported seeing a drone at an estimated altitude of 300' AGL (1,700' below the plane). While the drone was definitely well within the 5 mile radius from the airport and should not have been there it was still very far from a near-miss. I do not condon any type of flying outside the AMA and FAA guidelines, just using this as an example of how some of these reports are not actually near-misses.

I believe the FAA and some of the news media are to some extent exaggerating some of these reports to alarm the general public hoping to stir up anti-drone concerns knowing most people will not look into the details of these reports. The effect is more news to report and shifting some of the heat off the FAA since they've dropped the ball on coming up with effective rules/guidelines to implement these into the National Airspace System which was their assignment years ago.

For most purposes these drones don't need to go much above 150 - 200' to shoot aerial photography. Well below where normal aircraft should be flying outside the control zone of an airport so there really isn't a need to fit them into the National Airspace System.

My solution to some of the problem is the FAA simply needs to require the manufacturers to hard program the flight controllers so these units cannot go above 400', cannot take-off within 5 miles of an airport, cannot fly over open air sports complexes, require the operators to be regulated and/or licensed to fly, etc... The technology is already out there and one manufacturer (DJI) has already done this voluntarily.

The above would not be cheap to do but is doable and would drive the price point to a level that the average consumer would not be willing to pay and would therefore tend to limit the number of units flying for fun.

Another factor to keep in mind is this will turn out to be somewhat of a fad and once the "new" wears off people will turn to the next new gadget. Especially after a few of the idiots get fined heavily by the FAA.

Lastly, if you take one of these up to 100 to 150' with a GoPro on it you can see people but unless you know who they are it's almost impossible to identify them. And, every community already has laws on the books to deal with the invasion of privacy issues whether someone looks through a neighbors window, over the fence, etc...

Comparing it to boating which has been around a lot longer, it's not that much different than the conversations we have about licensing boat operators because of idiots that cause accidents and endanger their passengers.

There are a lot more people driving and texting (or boating irresponsibly) than there are people flying drones irresponsibly! Like everything else, you only hear about the idiots flying drones in dangerous situations, never about the thousands who operate their drones in a safe manner.

As always, everyone will have their own opinions on all these subjects.

Any way you look at it, it's definitely a mess that needs to be resolved in a way that won't kill an industry before it gets off the ground. There are some really good uses for this technology if it's used in a safe and responsible way.

I'll now go back to my quiet spot in the corner. LOL

Edited by - GaryB on 01/03/2015 00:20:46

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2015 : 19:25:39

quote:
1,700' below the plane

Ok, I have my doubts about those aircraft made from transparent material, and perhaps a little about those pilots with super vision, but what I don't understand was why were the pilots looking below the aircraft?

That's akin to driving according to what you see a foot in front of the hood on an Interstate.

paul

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2015 : 22:45:05

A jet airliner approaching a runway is a little like an oil tanker--corrections and especially evasive actions aren't as simple as they are in a Cessna (or a car). When the pilot has flaps down, is descending at landing speed, spots an object at some altitude within let's say a 75 degree cone in front of him, and isn't sure whether that object is going to go up, down, or sideways at any instant, I think he has a right (and a duty) to be concerned. If it's a valid concern, it has to be reported.

Drones might be a fad... They also might be the beginning of something bigger than we never imagined (like cell phones, texting, and even, over a longer term, automobiles and airplanes). I think this needs some cautious consideration.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/03/2015 22:46:27

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3478 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2015 : 08:39:13

<< and perhaps a little about those pilots with super vision, >>

One of the required pilot skills is looking out for a small dot that is a plane hurling at you at 200mph.

Shooting aerials ( in a small craft ) was always fun/not so fun... especially when they gave you the youngest pilot at an airport, with the oldest plane that had not been taken up for the longest time. The kid would ask you to help him keep an eye out for other craft in the area. All the while you're asking him if he can fly a little lower...

A local photographer's career ended in a helicopter crash so for me I view the drones with great joy... It makes me smile every time I see the results.

Nobody had to go up for that shot.... I expect they will be able to figure out how to keep the drones from bringing anybody else down.

Part of the reason this is an incredible shot is the local photographer knew when the conditions were right. StAndrews State park is often crawling with people. He picked great weather for the flight at a time when just about nobody was around.

<< If it's a valid concern, it has to be reported. >>
Roger that...

I've anchored my boat under the flight path of Tyndall, and a patrol boat showed up and asked me to move along.

Edited by - redeye on 01/04/2015 08:43:09

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4035 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2015 : 10:09:06

A friend of my son in-law is the Helicopter Cameraman for News 12. I saw him over the summer at a backyard barbecue and he had a drone with him. Lots of fun flying it but I had to ask him if he was worried about his job and was practicing for the next chapter in his life. He looked at me and said that there was no doubt in his mind that all of the news channels with helicopters will go with the drones and he wanted to be ready. He said it was a no brainier. Instead of the cost for a news channel to support a helicopter, Pilots(2), Cameraman(2), Fuel, Insurance and airport space fees they only need one person and a van to accomplish the same thing with a drone.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4317 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2015 : 10:52:04

quote:
Originally posted by britinusa

quote:
1,700' below the plane

Ok, I have my doubts about those aircraft made from transparent material, and perhaps a little about those pilots with super vision, but what I don't understand was why were the pilots looking below the aircraft?

That's akin to driving according to what you see a foot in front of the hood on an Interstate.

paul

When flying in VFR (visual flight rules) conditions it's every pilots responsibility to maintain visual separation from other aircraft even when in contact with air traffic control.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4317 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2015 : 11:23:05

quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

A jet airliner approaching a runway is a little like an oil tanker--corrections and especially evasive actions aren't as simple as they are in a Cessna (or a car). When the pilot has flaps down, is descending at landing speed, spots an object at some altitude within let's say a 75 degree cone in front of him, and isn't sure whether that object is going to go up, down, or sideways at any instant, I think he has a right (and a duty) to be concerned. If it's a valid concern, it has to be reported.

Drones might be a fad... They also might be the beginning of something bigger than we never imagined (like cell phones, texting, and even, over a longer term, automobiles and airplanes). I think this needs some cautious consideration.

Agree on all points stated.

Pilots definitely need to be concerned and it needs to be reported to ATC (just like reporting any other type of air traffic as being "in sight" but for it to be reported in the news as a near miss is not accurate.

Caution definitely needs to be maintained as this industry takes off and this technology grows but it needs to be balanced with open-mindedness to change.

If everyone focuses only on the negative things they hear on the news without researching and discussing the myriad of positive things that can come about with these devices it would be a shame.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4317 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2015 : 11:28:14

quote:
Originally posted by redeye

<< and perhaps a little about those pilots with super vision, >>

One of the required pilot skills is looking out for a small dot that is a plane hurling at you at 200mph.

Shooting aerials ( in a small craft ) was always fun/not so fun... especially when they gave you the youngest pilot at an airport, with the oldest plane that had not been taken up for the longest time. The kid would ask you to help him keep an eye out for other craft in the area. All the while you're asking him if he can fly a little lower...

A local photographer's career ended in a helicopter crash so for me I view the drones with great joy... It makes me smile every time I see the results.

Nobody had to go up for that shot.... I expect they will be able to figure out how to keep the drones from bringing anybody else down.

Part of the reason this is an incredible shot is the local photographer knew when the conditions were right. StAndrews State park is often crawling with people. He picked great weather for the flight at a time when just about nobody was around.

<< If it's a valid concern, it has to be reported. >>
Roger that...

I've anchored my boat under the flight path of Tyndall, and a patrol boat showed up and asked me to move along.

We also had the loss of a pilot and airplane used for aerial photography about a month ago. Not sure what caused the accident but from what I understand it went straight in vertically so I'd guess it was some kind of stall/spin accident.

Edited by - GaryB on 01/04/2015 11:28:36

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4317 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2015 : 11:56:36

Here's an example of something drones are perfect for handling and the FAA's knee jerk reaction now that things are getting out of hand because the FAA hasn't done what they were supposed to do after being mandated by Congress at least 4 years ago.

Example: A local <u>non-profit</u> search and rescue group (Texas Equusearch) had been using electric drone aircraft to help locate missing people since 2007 (be aware they do most of their searches on foot and using ATV's).

However when the situation requires a quicker response (young children/older adults, steep terrain, nearby water, or extreme weather conditions) they use their drones. I don't remember the numbers but they've located quite a few people alive in a short time frame where a normal search on foot might have resulted in a fatality instead of a safe recovery

Last year the FAA sent them a letter advising them they were in violation of regulations by using their drones for commercial purposes (after 7 years of safe operation). Not sure how a non-profit organization becomes a commercial operation.

I believe after spending thousands of dollars in attorney fees that restriction has now been lifted and they can again use their drones to hunt for missing people.

If your child or grand-child were missing wouldn't you want every available option to be used to find them? Especially if there were steep cliffs or bodies of water nearby where they could fall or drown?

As Islander's helicopter cameraman friend more or less stated, it's coming, better get ready for it. The cost difference of a helicopter vs a drone by itself will make it happen in the news industry. There is no way to justify the helicopter for this purpose.

As I've stated before, there is almost no need to go above 200' to do the average aerial photography shot. Certainly no need to go above 400'. You can't do that with a helicopter.

In my opinion, there is no need for the FAA to implement these smaller drones into the National Airpsoce system because they don't need to fly at altitudes that would interfere with regular aircraft.

One more thing to consider, most people do not realize that a person does not need to have a pilots license to fly certain types of ultralight aircraft! That means that a person with these types of aircraft can fly over your neighborhood totally unlicensed and unregulated and with no experience! Most fly at the higher end of the altitudes the drones fly in 300 - 500' and can easily have a GoPro attached to them. You don't hear anyone freaking out over that!

The average american citizen is relying on the news media to feed them information on drones and never take it upon themselves to research all the facts bad or good! Many react with negative comments without knowing the facts. Of course the same happens with many other topics of conversation.

Edited by - GaryB on 01/04/2015 12:00:26

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.