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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

wing draft

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ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/03/2003 : 21:02:59

I am reluctant to jump in as I am relatively new to the topic, but have one observation, as follows: have owned boats of four foot draft, and have owned boats of three foot draft. One would suppose that the one foot difference is a minor consideration. NOT SO in my case. At least three times in my sailing life, for periods adding up to more than ten years, three feet allowed one to get out of the berth or canal at any stage of tide, and four feet meant long waits, and sailing by the tide table, most inconvenient in the days when I was working and the weekend was a clearly defined entity with return to work on Monday a necessity. If you look at most coastal charts for the East coast of the US in New England estuarial waters, or long island, or the Chesapeake, or Florida West coast and keys, it is simply astonishing how much water there is that the one foot difference can open up. Of course I agree with the observation that one does not charge into these areas helter skelter but cautiously---but that is half the fun of exploring, and finding quiet areas of your own. The only thing keeping me from the wing right now is a shortage of units, and as soon as I can build up enough, my order will go in. God Bless, ron srsk 1981 #2343 SW FL

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2003 : 22:23:14

Well said, Ron. Don and I were splitting hairs... Your perspective is right on--go into thin water carefully with your mast straight up--heeling (hauling ass) is not appropriate. If I were in waters other than Long Island Sound, I might be much more interested in the extra foot-plus a wing would give me. Considering that and trailerability, it's undoubtedly the most versatile configuration on a C-25, unless you're a flat-out racer.

However, at a dead-even 3', my new, balanced rudder draws a couple of inches more than the wing...

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2003 : 19:42:53

Dave, the matter of rudder draft has come up a number of times. I have owned several boats where this ws an issue, because of the many years spent in shoal waters with shallow draft boats. I remember reading years ago a statement by Phil Bolger, the designer of so many unusual and creative boats, to the effect that he had added an "end plate" to a rudder years ago, and found it so effective, particularly on shallow draft boats, that he puts them on all his designs. This gave me the idea to try cutting a little off the end of our rudder, adding some corresponding area to the leading edge, and finishing off the whole thing with an end plate, hoping to achieve shallower draft with little loss in effectiveness. I note with interest that the new balanced C25 rudder draws less than the old traditional type that I have, and is said to be more effective: I take this to be cause the area lost at the bottom is added in front. Between the two, I think it might be possible to get a rudder the same draft as the wing keel retrofit. That would be nice. Regards, ron srsk #2343 Orion SW FL

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gnorgan
Admiral

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USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2003 : 20:04:50

Ron, you bring up a good point: How far below my wing keel does the rudder actually go? I shall go out (when it stops raining) and hang the dang thang on the aft end see for myself and do the measurement. I've sailed into shallow bays wondering if the keel would clear when I should really have been thinking rudder!!! <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>
Gary

Gary & Susan Norgan
C25 tall/wing
Classical Cat #5944
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc35b3127cce94ddf43b35f60000001010" border=0>

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2003 : 23:43:33

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
...I note with interest that the new balanced C25 rudder draws less than the old traditional type that I have, and is said to be more effective: I take this to be cause the area lost at the bottom is added in front. Between the two, I think it might be possible to get a rudder the same draft as the wing keel retrofit....
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Ron: My balanced rudder draws more than my original, probably because my boat has the cutout in the transom, while the newer boats the rudder was designed for do not. So I hung the rudder lower. (Does that disqualify me for Nationals? <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle> )

My rudder draws almost exactly 3' (not counting the effect of passengers in the cockpit)--that's about two inches more than the wing, as I recall... If I had a wing, I think I'd want it to be at least 3" less (to also account for bulk astern).

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2003 : 20:59:26

According to the Scarsdale diet, I should be able to raise the transom by three inches in only three months of self restraint, thereby eliminating sawing, epoxy putty, and skin lesions. Hmmm....! Why has this never worked before in seventy years? "Let me have men about me, that are fat, sleeke-headed men, and such as sleep a-nights: yon Cassius has a leane and hungry looke, he thinks too much: fuch men are dangerous." Yours for better ballast, ron srsk #2343 Orion SW FL

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2003 : 07:40:40

Rudder concerns in skinny water with a wing keel really needs to be taken into consideration. Several years ago for several years I took osmepneo out at low tide - I had the shallow draft keel and could wait while the deeper keels needed the deeper water. Each year osmepneo's rudder buried in the mud as I approached the bulkhead and prepared to lift her out. this wasn't terribly serious for me, I was close enough for the hoist to pull her out, but in gunk holing it is an important consideration.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.