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leaking thru hull

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dalelargent
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/17/2015 : 14:25:17

Great sailing yesterday. My son, dog and I averaged 6.3 mph w/peaks at 9mph. This after a quiet night on the hook and a delicious breakfast. So fun!

But, I also discovered a drip in the galley thru hull.

It only drips when the valve is open (thankfully). It is not sink/cooler water as I have not used them yet this year and are, therefore, dry. I, for the first time, have lake water entering my boat (when the valve is open).

I attached some pics...BTW, I know nothing about thru hull plumbing and their proper installation/materials. This set-up came to me from the PO, so don't be bashful about your opinions of materials, etc.

The leak seems to be from the brass valve portion...can't tell if it is forming at threads or in the valve casting.

It seems to me, and I am only guessing, I need to trailer the boat and replace the brass valve portion. I wonder if it just needs tightening and/or new thread sealant, but I sure don't feel comfortable doing so while the boat is in the water.

Opinions? Things to be careful of? Teflon tape or another sealant?

I failed to measure the plumbing, but I think the valve says 1/2 right on it.

1989 c25 WK/TR #5838
1998 Catalina 36 mkii
1983 Vagabond 14

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2015 : 08:52:48

Sounds like it has to be coming from the valve stem (where the lever attaches) or a connection above it. Can you see or feel the highest point that is wet, and above which everything is dry?

PS: The dog knows--the question is whether he'll tell you!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage before going over to the Dark Side (2007-2025); now boatless for the first time since 1970 (on a Sunfish).

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/18/2015 08:54:35

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2015 : 09:49:25

Dry off the fitting and wrap a rolled up paper towel around the fitting above the lever. If the towel stays dry, do the same thing right below the lever. If both remain dry, then you know the leak is in the threads at the bottom of the valve.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5429 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2015 : 18:21:16

I see the drip. I note there is some green oxidation on the valve stem. Maybe you can use some baby powder to dust it up to see where the wetness is coming from? If its coming from the valve stem you can usually remove the threaded cap and replace the packing without pulling the valve apart. It should leak a little but should not be a gusher. (Famous last words)
Or you can get a short haul at your local boat yard...

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

dalelargent
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2015 : 21:40:23

Thanks for the advice. I love the paper towel/baby powder ideas! Dang that's clever.

Based on my earlier inspection, the drip "appears" to be coming from the lower threads. But, if so, wouldn't it continually drip regardless of valve position? I think that is correct, and, therefore, assume my valve body or stem is leaking. Does this make sense?

I had not noticed the oxidation (how???). I am sure it is dry in that spot, though.

So, I will take a few parts out to the boat next time and see what comes of it. I already have paper towel on board.

Any thoughts about Teflon tape vs paste thread sealant? I know at home I try to avoid Teflon tape, but sometimes it is just the thing...

Thanks again!

1989 c25 WK/TR #5838
1998 Catalina 36 mkii
1983 Vagabond 14

dalelargent
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2015 : 21:47:35

Also, if I need to replace the valve, should I stay with the brass or go to plastic ball valve?

1989 c25 WK/TR #5838
1998 Catalina 36 mkii
1983 Vagabond 14

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3478 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2015 : 04:01:25

Since this is a small drip type leak, I would first try the easiest methods to stop the leaking versus replacing the valve or uninstalling it to repair/replace internals. If the leak is from the stem, then agree with other posting regarding replacing packing...if it is a valve type that does not allow tightening the jam nut to compress the packing.

If the leak is from the valve body inlet threads....without damaging the male plastic threads, I would try a temporary repair which may turn out to be fine as a permaanent repair. Get a stainless steel clamp - the ones that you tighten with a screwdriver but first wrap the plastic threads with either thick rubber tape or use a thin rubber strip with a part of the tape extending over the bottom edge of the valve casting. Undo the clamp so you can fit it around the tape on the plastic threads, then tighten the clamp moderately...not enough to damage the plastic threads but enough to slightly compress the rubber tape/strip and that will then hopefully compress the tape right at the interface between the plastic male thread and the female valve threads. If the leak stops, then leave it as is and check every so often. maybe that will square it away.

Valve bodies are generally robust and bronze is corrosion resistant. It is doubtful any significant corrosion has occurred...enough to waste away the valve....so no valve thru leak is expected to deteriorate to any great extent. But some of these ball valves, the way they are constructed, one end is where you take out the internals by unthreading the body joint. if it is of that construction and it looks like it might be from your photo - The end that connects to the male plastic threads, well, the way some of these ball valves work...unthreading that body connection, holds and gains access to the ball valve seat on that side. What I suspect is that either the ball valve seat on that side or the threads to gain access to the seat have oxidized/corroded a bit and it is the ball valve movement and the pressing of the ball on that seat side that is effecting whether it leaks or not.

You may want to ensure whether the leak is from the plastic threads to valve body threads or from your photo what appears to be the threaded insert just above the plastic to valve body connection. If it is from the threaded insert, then just use the clamp and rubber tape/rubber strip on the threaded insert to valve body connection.

If it works.....then easier enough repair with no undoing of the joint. if it doesn't, then you are no worse off than you are now and just out the cost of one auto style clamp and s rubber tape/strip.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2015 : 12:07:58

Tape and compounds are not generally recommended with plastic fittings.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5429 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2015 : 21:04:20

Isn't there an epoxy-type patching material that can be used below waterline? I seem to recall some goop that'll cure even if it's wet. That possibly may work. Gorilla glue smeared all over the gap then taped over may allow the glue to foam up and set. Just a thought or two.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2015 : 10:42:02

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

Isn't there an epoxy-type patching material that can be used below waterline? I seem to recall some goop that'll cure even if it's wet...

It seems it doesn't have to be wet--just close the valve and let things dry up. But I wouldn't use some goop that'll make it a lot harder to remove the valve later. I'd opt for replacing whatever is causing the problem. I hate leaks below the waterline.

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2015 : 10:44:59

Epoxy will set underwater just fine, but the cure time will be very long. I wouldn't recommend this as a solution, because you're basically applying a bandage over an unknown problem in the hopes that it stops the symptoms (the leak). If it becomes necessary to replace the valve, now you have to deal with the epoxy as well as the problem itself. Epoxy is very tenacious, and while heat is your friend to remove it, that doesn't bode well for your plastic pipe or fiberglass hull.

I'd first determine where the actual problem is. I'd use two different colors of dry erase markers (which will run nicely with the drip and the different colors will tell you where it started).

The idea of a leaking through hull with an unknown reason for the leak wouldn't lead to very sound sleep for me even with an automatic bilge pump. I've also got a no-traffic commute time of 40 minutes to get there if I was alerted there was a problem by our marina manager (who has the combination to our hatch lock and knows if he sees water being pumped out of my bilges there's a problem).

I'd pull the boat out of the water and do whatever was necessary to rectify the problem. You'll have peace of mind and your first big project under your belt on your new boat.

The corrosion around the valve stem is indicative of a leak at least that high. It's not proof because the corrosion could just be because the valve's been there long enough to corrode a bit, or it could be an external indicator of electrolysis corroding the valve body from the inside if you or one of your dock mates has an electrical leak into the water.

And I agree with Dave, the dog knows...

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Edited by - delliottg on 06/20/2015 10:53:06

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2015 : 12:53:09

Trade the dog for a girlfriend and all your problems will go away. ;)

Frank Hopper

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2015 : 07:01:07

<< Trade the dog for a girlfriend and all your problems will go away. ;) >>

Ask the Dog to pick your girlfriend, keep both, and all your problems will become minuscule!

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2015 : 07:29:40

IMHO and all advice here is worth the money you paid for it...

I usta be chickenship about working on a valve below the waterline.. Then I watched somebody work on mine out of the water and RUN to inspect his work after refloating the boat... Hmmmm..

Now I feel you need to become comfortable working on a through hull.

Can you become skilled at pluggin the hole without cracking the through hull? ( I've never heard of that happening, but that is not to point ) Don't hammer a wood bung into the fitting.

I think we should all be skilled at jumping in the water and plugging the hole.

What would we use... rubber, cork, wood...

I bought wood bungs and now I think wood might swell and crack the fitting...

Only then could you remove the fitting and inspect/repair.

I would go with marelon. ( and shallow water ) Tighten the nut on the handle and see if that compresses the fitting. ( after pluggin the hole. )

Now that I think of it it's funny that they don't sell through hulls with matching plugs...

Thanks for making me hafta think about it... and off the the store to find rubber bungs...

I'm guessing Wood bungs were for Brass through hulls...

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - redeye on 06/21/2015 07:50:27

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