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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

swing keel retrofit

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John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/16/2003 : 09:52:13

I am at the point where I have to make a decision regarding my old swinger. During last summers sailing the keel would not swing all the way down and made the boat difficult to sail upwind. I have looked at the wing keel conversion demonstrated by bill holcomb on his friend's "Minnie". Since I will have to remove the old keel anyway to get at the problem, I am considering doing the retrofit. Have any members of the forum done the conversion, and what are your thoughts.
in particular: are early hulls any different from later ones (regarding the keel slot) How far do the trailer rollers need to be raised, how thorough are Catalina direct's instructions, is enough bedding compound provided, have there been any fit problems?

thanks for any information.

John V.
Nin Bimash II 77 C25 sk/sr #153

Edited by - John V. on 03/16/2003 09:54:21

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2003 : 10:22:18

John,

I had my '83 catalina retrofitted several years ago after a few disasterous unplanned deployments. To this day it is undoubtedly the best alteration EVER to the boat. Ask anyone what is required in the realm of maintenance on the swing and the retrofit eliminates them. It is truly as close to a trouble free keel as one can find. The kit is trouble free( just have it shipped piggy backed to your local dealer and save on shipping costs). Fairing requires some effort using materials not included with the kit. One fellow on the list even made the exchange using floor jacks. I opted to have the yard do it given that I didn't have the lifting equiptment necessary to effect the exchange, nor the desire to do it.

Things you may miss once the wing is in place:

No more humming

No more clunking

No more wet bilges

No more swing maintenance

No more surplus funds in your check book( for a while)

I wish you well.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT

Val Bisagni]<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df11b3127cce94709c5ff2e90000000010" border=0>

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2003 : 17:21:32

I am considering this conversion on my '79 SK/SR. I recently called the Catalina factory to get a price quote, which was $1750 for the keel and template kit, not including shipping. The fit of the new keel into the old keel trunk will depend on model year; not all C-25's are identical. Some owners who have done the conversion have found that after the new keel is bedded, there are still gaps around the edges that will need to be filled and faired. Another item to consider is that the interior cabin floor is not the same on all boats. There were two different kinds of dinettes and the "traditional" interior, and the cabin floor access holes into the bilge are different, requiring different kinds of modifications to give access to the new keel bolts.
Feedback from others who have done the conversion indicates that your trailer rollers will probably need to be raised about 3 or 4 inches, but this will be dependant on your actual trailer, with is probably different... Good luck and let us know how it goes if you decide to go ahead with the conversion.

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Sacramento, CA

Edited by - on

f_sondergaard
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2003 : 19:28:14

Val could not have said it any better! We did the conversion this winter and it is GREAT!! We have no regrets at all!!

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2003 : 08:52:32

Larry's concern about the cabin interior finish is of interest. I have the dinette configuration,probably the more arduous to conceal the bolt holes. Some of the bolts were inside the dinette seat lockers. A few were across the leading edge of the space between the seats,covered with a 1/2"X5" piece of teak, and one was aft of all needing as access plate to cover the hole there. I'm planning a trip to the boat and will photograph the setup and post the pics here.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT

Val Bisagni]<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df11b3127cce94709c5ff2e90000000010" border=0>

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2003 : 18:14:26

Thanks for the insight. #153 is a dinette, so I would also have to deal with the bolts at the dinette area threshold. I'm looking forward to seeing any photo's you may have. did you do the work yourself, or did you have the yard do the work?

If you did the work yourself what were the pitfalls, things expected/unexpected,

There are several places near lake Erie where I could have the work done. Freeman and Eckley are in Vermillion. they are a big catalina dealer and would possibly have time to do the work. It would be a matter of getting the time to have the work done with lots of other boats being readied for spring.

Keep me posted

John V. Nin Bimash II
77 C25 sk/sr #153

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2003 : 20:08:25

Since my last post to this thread, I have had a conversation with a boat yard that can provide lifting and stands while I work on the job. They will be there as back up and will be able to handle the heavy loads that intimidate me. On the first lift we will take the boat off the trailer leaving the swing keel behind. My question is this, is there a market for used swing keels? It is in very good condition but I have never seen one for sale nor have I ever seen an ad seeking a swing keel. I will truck it away braced on the trailer since I don't want to leave it for the yard to dispose of.

Any thoughts?

John V. Nin Bimash II
77 C25 sk/sr #153

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2003 : 21:27:06

This maybe a long shot. Take it to a metal scrap yard. 1500lbs of metal has to be worth something. What ever you get at the scrap yard you can put towards the new wing.

The scrap yard might be able to give you what you could sell it for with fewer headaches.

Bryan Beamer
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc23b3127cce9462f2858f2b0000001010" border=0>
Daylight Again
C250wk #495

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2003 : 22:45:53

I have never seen or heard of anyone wanting to buy a used swing keel. The Catalina factory does not want them back - I already checked on that option. The local sailboat repair shop that will do my swing-to-wing conversion (if and when I decide to go forward with it) told me they have no idea either of what to do with the swing keel, other than give it to a scrap metal dealer or dump it in a landfill. The local scrap yard won't give me any value for it since it is "pig" iron and not steel. The local metal recyclers apparently want only regular low-carbon steel, like car bodies and scrap appliances, not high-carbon cast iron. This may be different on the East Coast where you are closer to major steel processing facilities. The problem of what to do with the swing keel has caused two other local Catalina 25 owners from backing out of doing the conversion last year.

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Sacramento, CA

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2003 : 05:56:34

Just a dumb ide about what to do with a used swing keel. Post it's availability on the swap meet and see what happens.

I can't believe anyone would want a used one, but, hey, you never know. Maybe some one has a pitted, swing keel, and wants to keep his boat a swinger (altho' as converted winger I can't fathom why <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>) and is thinking about replacinging his old one. Who knows maybe there's such a big market out there that you could have a whole new line of work, buying, reconditioning and selling old swing keels. Naaaah!

Good luck with the project (if you do it - I know I would)

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2003 : 08:48:40

My old swing keel disappeared almost as fast as the check written to pay for the service. The yard did two swingers the same week and both keels were gone before the dust settled. The yard had a scrap dealer come and pick them up. Never asked if any money changed hands. Just knew that I was out from under a burden that I never figured on.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT

Val Bisagni]<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df11b3127cce94709c5ff2e90000000010" border=0>

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2003 : 09:27:24

Has anyone here had a swing-wing conversion done by a yard in Northern Calif ? (Bay Area, Sacramento etc)...

-- CB

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

cat30
1st Mate

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73 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2003 : 09:43:32

We had the yard do the heavy lifting- I did prep work and finish work to save some cost- if you have the keel shipped with another boat coming to your area you will save considerable costs. My yard decided to use 5200 instead of the goop shipped by catalina. there were some gaps at the keel/hull join that the yard used west system epoxy to fill and fair. the yard adjusted the trailer after the work was completed and the boat was still in the slings. Except for my wallet the project was painless-

Edited by - on

Toddl2002
Deckhand

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8 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2003 : 18:33:49

I am in Miami Florida. Has anyone had a wing keel conversion done , and would reccomend a yard that did this work?

Thanks

Todd

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John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2003 : 21:08:58

hi Todd, Welcome to the forum. there is a really good set of photos and description of a conversion in the tech tips section of this site.
The boat is called Minnie, and the posts are listed alphabetically by boat name. Can't tell you anything about Miami, I am planning to have the conversion done in June. I have to wait till the yard is done with spring launchings here in cold country. Good luck finding help in Florida.

John V. Nin Bimash II
77 C25 sk(soon to be wk)/sr #153

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2003 : 12:04:50

osmepneo came with a wing keel, and if I were at the point of thinking about another swing keel or a retro fit the decision would be a no brainer - I retro fit a wing on my boat. The only advantage that swinger has, in my admittadly (sp) myopic mind, is if you dry sail (ugh) or travel. And in both cases I think that advantage is very limited.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2003 : 13:38:08

I would like to refer all to swing keel retrofit update on this forum. Things have changed and I have decided to keep the swinger for now.

Thanks to all for your insight and comment I'll look for a wing on the next boat. (there is always a next boat isn't there?)

John V. Nin Bimash II
77 C25 sk/sr #153

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