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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Proper keel position in harbor

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Steve Shetter
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/21/2003 : 22:02:44

From everything that I've read in the forum, it would appear that a common practice for a swing keel is to raise it when tied up in the slip. I understand that would avoid the stresses related to the normal rocking action that occurs, but it also seems that it places a additional wear on the entire raising mechanism. I am semi-retired and will be staying on the boat most of the summer, but when I come home, I'm about 2 1/2 to 3 hours away from the harbor (which means, I can't get there right away if necessary). When I bought her, she had been in the water for several years with the keel down, with no apparent damage. So, is it 6 of one and a half dozen of the other?

Steve Shetter
"At Last"
#2381

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2003 : 23:35:21

I heard keeping the keel down causes less stress on the system, prolonging the keel system's life. You should inspect it every season or so.

Steven de Filippis
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2003 : 23:43:32

Although I don't currently have a swinger, I believe the consensus is to leave the keel in the down position when at the dock. This is because if the cable were to let go with the keel in the fully raised position it could crash through the forward part of the trunk and possibly sink the boat. I would be inclined to leave it down all the time and only raise it to put it on the trailer.

To read more about this very situation, click on the link below.

http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2557

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2003 : 02:21:27

Personaly, I am of the opinion that whenever the boat is off of the trailer the keel should be positioned below the surface at all times.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

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markolito
1st Mate

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Italy
95 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2003 : 10:23:00

i had an idea the other day and wanted an opinion from you all..

My docks are super shallow, and i am forced to keep the swing keel up while at dock.. however the boat moves ALOT in the dock because it is pretty exposed. I am very nervous about the keel wire snapping! I was thinking about maybe using a 2" x 27' Heavy Duty Ratchet Tie Down with 10,000 Lbs. Rated Capacity (from home depot) and put it all around from the top of cabin down to the keel. This is a cheap $13 investment that might save my boat from catastrophic damage in storms. What do you all think? I have not gotten it yet. I have not re-done the keel mechanism since i got the boat, so i am a little paranoid..

here is where it would go:

<img src="http://www.kaotica.com/marco/strap.jpg" border=0>

any comments??

<img src="http://www.response-marketing.com/beta/plaa.jpg" border=0>
1980 SR/SK "Wet Pretzel"

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svmoxie
Past Commodore

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USA
331 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2003 : 10:54:56

One concern about the strap I have, aside from the logistics of passing it under the boat, would be the ability to lower it IF you needed it and the cable failed. At that point the weight of the keel would be held by the strap.... how would you lower it? I guess you haul out at that point and replace the cable. Certainly a good idea if you are uncertain about the condition. Do you know if the previous owner ever changed out the cable?

The other thought is, if the bottom is too shallow to leave the keel down, then the keel could not fall enough to damage the trunk, it would just fall to the bottom. Why do anything? Of course if the boat moves a lot with the keel on the bottom you could get some lateral forces on the keel and get damage that way.

My choice is to replace the cable every time I do the bottom, leave it up on the mooring and have GOOD replacement insurance!

Clif Thompson
Treasurer C-25/250 National Association.
svMoxie '81 25 sk

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2003 : 13:45:51

Here is the general rub -

Swing Keel up - if there is cable failure or slippage and the keel falls, the keel trunk will most likely crack as a result of the keel slamming into the trunk when it drops.

Swing Keel Down - There is no stress on the cable, however the effects of the water (especially salt water) over time can erode the cable.

Personally, I prefer to keep it down at the slip and inspect the cable periodically for wear.

As for the strap Idea....I think Clif nailed it...if the keel can't drop all the way, then it won't crack anything.

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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markolito
1st Mate

Members Avatar

Italy
95 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2003 : 14:20:51

not true.. if it drops, the keel will not crack the trunk right off the bat, but it will get stuck in the mud and with the lateral movement, probably "pry" it open. <img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>

I broke my mast in half, last thing i need is a busted keel cable. I think i am going to try the strap for safety (at least till i fix the mast) when i do the haul out i'll replace the WHOLE keel mechanism.

<img src="http://www.response-marketing.com/beta/plaa.jpg" border=0>
1980 SR/SK "Wet Pretzel"

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triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2003 : 17:55:14

Clif is right. My shallow slip demanded the keel in the up position. While it may have been due to vandalism, the keel did break at the swage at the distal end of the cable. The keel ended up in the mud. I caught it within 24 hours and in calm seas, so there was little or no damage, but I agree that it would probably have done some twisting damage to the hull if it stayed in the mud any longer or through a blow.

I also agree that the strap idea would end up with the keel up but with little possibility of getting it down. My own keep cable was replaced in the water, with the keel in the mud. It was easy if you could hold your breathy long enough and had a needle nose stainless steel pliers. I am an old man, and a youngfer friend who dives did it with just a mask and snorkle. I caught the line coming through the hull and mde certain it had gotten on the right side of the turning ball. Worked just fine. With the boat ashore I replaced the turning ball, too.

Tom

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William Matley
1st Mate

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52 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2003 : 21:26:36

This is an interesting subject, something I have thought about for much of the winter.

A couple months ago I asked this group about my 80 25 sk which I noticed sat nose down at her slip when ever I left her keel fully extended. I was pleased to hear that many other boats sit the same way. I agree with the majority opinion, if you have the water room, it’s best to keep the keel down when ever possible but I hated the water build up in the cockpit. So I would reluctantly bring the keel up until I could get water to run to the scuppers and leave the boat (6 hour drive one way) worrying the whole time that the keel cable would fail.

But that leads me to my original question and to my solution. I mentioned that when resting at the marina, keel down and nose down, rain water would collect in the forward portion of the cockpit floor rather than running out of the rear scuppers. So I just finished installing a new cockpit drain in the forward end of the cockpit floor. So this year, I can leave my swing keel down (sleep good at night) I and have a clean dry cockpit.

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ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2003 : 21:57:09

Orion has the worst situation. At low water the keel sometimes bottoms out. At high water it can deploy, sometimes to full extension, in the berth. Obviously, the keel must be up when at rest, as I cannot have the keel down if she bottoms out, since we get wake action in the slip area. My cable has been carefully inspected by divers, but I have not had the chance to have it replaced, so the true condition of the swage is unknown. Sometime fairly soon I will be faced with the prospect of a haulout, and either have to replace the cable, ball, hanger pin, etc, (and I would do the 20-odd year old rusty winch) OR I could try to go a little longer and squirrel away enough for the WINGY-DINGY keel. What a quandary! Fair winds, ron srsk Orion SW FL

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