Association Forum - major design flaw!

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

major design flaw!

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

77Gypsy
Captain

Member Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/04/2003 : 21:36:36

i spent ALL weekend fixing her up, new batteries, re-wireing tec. i noticed in the cockpit lazarette the battery, gas tank and the back side of the electrical panel is all in the same compartment. that can't be good?!? the battery sits on a shelf, it can easily fall down into tyhe lazarette in a turbulent sea.

Steven de Filippis
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy

Edited by - on

tzk53s
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2003 : 21:51:37

Functionaly most dwellings (homes,offices,motorhomes,boats) have a utility area. This makes logical sense to locate systems in one area. As long as these utilities remain in good order there should be no issue. In fact for convienence I would not want functional systems spread out all over the boat. If it was easy to locate my batteries in the portside locker I would,but, it is too difficult to remove them when they are in the bottom of the locker and I cannot rely on a six year old being available to crawl down into the locker so the heavy batteries remain under the settee. The only flaw I see in the area is the waste of space. There was a earlier thread that explained how to access this area from the aft 1/4 berth. I plan some day on makeing this moidification. Best of weather. Jim

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2003 : 22:09:31

You'll get a good argument for not putting the fuel in the lazarette. I know there's a spot for it, but the ventalation isn't very good. The 3 gallon tank will sit nin the back of the cockpit on the floor, a smarter place to put it. On longer trips we put our second cooler on on the molded shelf in the lazarette. We also carry spare fuel in there on long runs, but only in a regular sealed gas can, not a fuel tank with vents and hose connections.

Doug - #1913 Noeta

Edited by - on

eric.werkowitz
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2003 : 22:16:09

Steve,

I hope your battery has a secure hold-down to keep it from falling off the shelf. If not, I suggest you install one.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2003 : 22:41:55

Steven,

I agree with the trend in the preceeding advice and comments. On my 1979 C-25, I immediately switched to using a portable fuel tank in the aft end of the cockpit footwell. Both my group-27 house batteries are under the stbd. settee. I removed the useless factory fuel tank shelf and built a smaller, lower shelf specifically for my group-24 cranking battery. I then removed and patched the "dryer vents". Later, I subdivided the port locker into about half a dozen separate compartments for better space utilization, including a 12-gal. internal fuel tank. I built a new electrical panel on the stbd. side, eleminating the original one above the galley sink. (Water splash on the front side and fuel fumes on the back side -- what a concept.)

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 08:25:44

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Steve,

I hope your battery has a secure hold-down to keep it from falling off the shelf. If not, I suggest you install one.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
I agree - When we had our boat appraised, we were "dinged" for that. All batteries should be in battery boxes and securely strapped down.

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 09:58:35

I, too, have the large port lazarette that holds both the fuel tank and the back of the electrical panel, and to me, it's no big deal. It's been that way for 23 years and it's gonna be that way for 20 more. Sure, having a separate fuel locker would be safer, but I have more important things to worry about, like if there is enough ice for the margarita's.

If you are worried that fumes from the fuel tank are going to be ignited by a spark from the electrical panel, then do what powerboaters do and install a bilge blower. Before you do that though, I think the first thing that you should do is make sure that your fuel tank does not leak.

My fuel tank is air tight. How do I know? Well, when I open the filler cap upon refilling there is a strong whoooosh signifying an air tight seal. This tells me that fumes aren't getting out of my tank. Additionally, when preparing to get under way, I unlock and open the lazarette hatch to make sure my boathook and secondary anchor are at the ready in case I need them at a moments notice. Opening the hatch provides ventilation and if there were a leak I would smell it right away.

If you are still worried about the mixing of fuel products and electricity in one location, think about this...If you drive a fuel injected vehicle(as most do), at this moment your electrically driven fuel pump is submerged at the bottom of your fuel tank.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Gary
1st Mate

Members Avatar

58 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 11:15:46

Don, what brand/type of fuel tank do you have? All the portable tanks I've seen vent thru the filler cap and don't have an air tight seal. Thanks, Gary

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 11:45:10

I'm not sure what the brand is(Tempo?), but it's a heavy duty plastic 6 gallon tank that does have the vent in the cap, but I've never opened it and my engine has run perfectly in the last year that I've owned it. Once last year while out on a cruise, I motored for almost 12 hours straight without a problem and the engine ran like a champ. Is this wrong? A manual didn't come with my engine(I should get one), should the vent be opened on a 1995 Mercury 8hp with a single fuel line?

I remember when I was a kid, some of my Dad's old outboards wouldn't even run unless the cap was screwed on tight. Someone educate me.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 05/05/2003 11:46:30

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 16:13:15

i screwed in some 2x4's to hold the battery in place, works good enough, i don't really plan to sail in huge breaking seas anyway.

Steven de Filippis
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 20:11:29

Don, I tend to think there's an air leak in your tank somewhere. Both of my outboards will eventually starve & die if the fuel tank isn't vented. Can't keep sucking gas out of the can without replacing with something or collapsing the can...

Doug - #1913 Noeta

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 20:43:01

I have to agree with Doug. If I don't open the gas tank vent I get about a 1/4 mile from the marina and ...silence from the O/B!
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

Edited by - on

tzk53s
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2003 : 19:10:37

Don,
Depends on what type carburetor you have. Many "older" types vented through the carb. This allowed a sealed system through the fueltank. Without even trying these models were more compliant than some of todays outboards for Hydrocarbon emissions. The fuel delivery system relied upon a seal to make good on getting fuel to the carburetor. I too have an "older" mariner longshaft on my 78 swinger and have total confidence in its ability to perform in the future. Jim

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2003 : 21:04:08

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Depends on what type carburetor you have. Many "older" types vented through the carb. This allowed a sealed system through the fueltank. Without even trying these models were more compliant than some of todays outboards for Hydrocarbon emissions. The fuel delivery system relied upon a seal to make good on getting fuel to the carburetor. I too have an "older" mariner longshaft on my 78 swinger and have total confidence in its ability to perform in the future. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Jim,

Hmmm, that's interesting. I wonder if that's the case with mine.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 00:04:01

The 'ventilated' fuel tank setups that I've seen had special double hoses and were pretty distinctive looking.

I'd always thought that the function of the 2nd hose to provide a few PSI back to pressurize the fuel tank, 'pushing' the fuel out to the engine. The pressure was provided from the swept area of the 2 stroke crankcase.

I haven't seen a setup like that in some years.

When I'm on board, my fuel tank sits in the aft end of the cockpit.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

tzk53s
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 18:20:09

Don, Noticed a misleading comment in my response to you yesterday. When I was talking of emissions, I was speaking specifically about evaporative emissions; not tailpipe or exhaust emissions. The non-vented tanks do not emit through a vent the hydrocarbons that modern tanks do.

Edited by - on

tzk53s
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 18:21:27

Edited by - on

jtbarrett
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 12:13:02

I am new to owning my boat, about a summer now, and well my fuel on my 82 swing keel is in locker the lifts up port side aft in the cockpit. Is this the proper place?

Jon Barrett
82 sk sr
"Hang Loose"
Yankee Point Yatch Club (Lancaster Va) COME VISIT!

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 12:14:54

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I am new to owning my boat, about a summer now, and well my fuel on my 82 swing keel is in locker the lifts up port side aft in the cockpit. Is this the proper place?

Jon Barrett
82 sk sr
"Hang Loose"
Yankee Point Yatch Club (Lancaster Va) COME VISIT!

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Sounds right.....is there a shelf in that locker aft of everything?

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 14:38:33

Jon Barrett <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>... my fuel on my 82 swing keel is in locker the lifts up port side aft in the cockpit. Is this the proper place?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>First, tell us how many locker lids you have in your port side cockpit bench seat. There were different versions, and your 1982 boat may have been built right around a change over point.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - Leon Sisson on 05/14/2003 14:41:56

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 14:40:38

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I am new to owning my boat, about a summer now, and well my fuel on my 82 swing keel is in locker the lifts up port side aft in the cockpit. Is this the proper place?

Jon Barrett
82 sk sr
"Hang Loose"
Yankee Point Yatch Club (Lancaster Va) COME VISIT!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

That's the external fuel storage upgrade Catalina made in '82. Eliminates the problem of fuel vapors entering the cabin.

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2003 : 01:06:26

My '81 has the external fuel tank locker, but it may have been one of the first. I think the fuel tank locker is a part of the deck piece of the boat, while the shelf in the lazarette is part of the hull liner piece. I notice mine still has the shelf, although with only about 1/2" clearance from the top of the shelf to the underside of the external fuel tank locker. I don't know if they later reconfigured the liner mold to remove the now useless shelf or they just kept it there. It's really not hurting anything, but I suppose removing it would create additional space in the lazarette.

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2003 : 14:24:45

Mine has that same shelf also. One change at a time, I guess.<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2003 : 18:13:33

I have hull #2262 ('81) and it has a separate fuel locker and the vestigial shelf in the "warehouse".
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2003 : 18:29:05

I have #2616 and it has a separate fuel compartment through which the previous owner routed the wires for the electric-start OB. My batteries are under port and startboard settees and wired through a switch under the companionway. System has worked just fine. I always carry an extra five gallon plastic fuel can aft in the footwell when cruising. That gives me 20 hours at three-quarter throttle. I always refill all fuel tanks on the dock (never pour gasoline on the boat--way too many things can go badly wrong).

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

Members Avatar

Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2003 : 21:29:13

The internal shelf was gone by 1985... And I agree that Don either has an air leak (maybe in the filler cap) or should open his vent. The closed vent, if it seals correctly, is more likely to cause a problem if the tank is full and has very little space for air and vapor pressure. The older pressurizing systems have a double-hose. With one hose, no venting at the carb is going to eliminate the possibility of a vaccuum in the tank. When that happens, things get very quiet.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.