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bilge pump ideal location?

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CB
1st Mate

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54 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/13/2003 : 22:18:32

My swing keel only has a manual bilge pump(not working) and I wanted to install an electric pump w/ float switch. What is the best location for the pump? It won't fit in the center next to the keel trunk. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Chris

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 08:21:41

Thats a really good question. After all these years, I don't think I figured it out.

The previous owner put one in the Port Settee(we have a McDonalds booth for an interior) as inboard an as aft as possible. We really only use this now when the boat is on the hard. If I were a betting man, I would say that is when the DPO installed it since that is the only time water really collects there.

We installed one right next to the keel cable. Quarterberth forward.

We also installed two inspection plates in the cabin sole due to some problems we were having with rain water and the rubrails and have contemplated dropping a pump in there and removing one of the others. But our boat has been dry for a while now and there hasn't been a need.

None of ours have automatic float switches since the possible drain on a battery isn't worth it. The yard workers at the club, and our previous yacht club walk the docks and would notify us if there were any real problems.

So to answer your question - I am not sure, but if possible, see where water would collect while your boat is in before installing.

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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Leon Sisson
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Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 09:10:20

Chris,<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I wanted to install an electric pump w/ float switch. What is the best location for the pump? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>I'm not sure what the 'best' location is, but here's what I did.

I installed a small (500GPH) pump under the cabin sole just forward of the companionway stairs. This is one of the type that has an internal float switch, starts pumping when the switch floats, and keps pumping until it senses air at its impeller. The discharge hose is stepped down from 3/4" to 1/2" to reduce the volume of drain back at shut off.

I installed another electric pump under the quarterberth, between the keel winch and the galley sink. This one is rated at 3,700GPH and uses an external float switch. The hose is 1-1/2".

Both discharge hoses are lead to the transom, high and inboard in the (large early style) port cockpit locker. Each pump runs off a separate battery, and has its own circuit breaker and [ON/OFF/AUTO] switch. Power to the larger pump is routed through a relay because of the high current draw.

This may not be exactly the answer you were looking for, but maybe there's something in it you can use.

Good luck!

-- Leon Sisson

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 11:48:12

This question pops up once a year or so. My ansure is always the same. If you have enough water inside your C-25 there is something seriously wrong. Over seven years of owning a C-25 Fin Keel and sailing in all types of weather I never had more than a few cups of water in the bilge. Never enough to float a pump switch or even for the pump to pick up. If you have enough water to need a pump you need to get that boat out of the water and find the hole.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

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Champipple
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Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 12:13:01

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
This question pops up once a year or so. My ansure is always the same. If you have enough water inside your C-25 there is something seriously wrong. Over seven years of owning a C-25 Fin Keel and sailing in all types of weather I never had more than a few cups of water in the bilge. Never enough to float a pump switch or even for the pump to pick up. If you have enough water to need a pump you need to get that boat out of the water and find the hole.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

As usual, I will take my stance in disagreement. I do wish I could say my boat was as dry as yours, but really don't see that as a realistic option. I would guess yours is the exception not the norm with a lot of the C-25's out there.

We have been recaulking and rebedding stuff since we got the boat, and it will probably go on for a much longer time as well. One rainstorm combined a leaky window or companionway alone can provide more than enough water for a pump to operate. (On a side note If there actually were a hole in the boat, it would be sitting on the bottom of the body of water it sails upon, not floating at the top.)Don't forget too that peace of mind is also a huge reason to install a bilge pump. Electric or manual!

Sometimes you have to cure the sypmtoms before you can fix the cause. And if its a choice of me sailing or me with a caulk gun - grab the sheets because the caulk gun stays on the dock.

I might also add that Chris did not say his boat was leaking, he said that he manual bilge wasn't working and he wanted to install an automatic one.

Sorry I will get off my soap box now....

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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Buzz Maring
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Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 13:33:32

Hi Chris,

The last time this subject came up, I got an idea from Don Lucier that is on my list of to-dos (maybe Don is good for something after all! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>).

His suggestion was to make a "portable" bilge pump that you could move around. I haven't worked out the details yet, but it seems like a pretty good idea to me. You could put the intake hose wherever the water has collected in your bilge, and use your battery power to simply pump the water out ... kinda' like a shop vac.

The other advantage of making it portable is that you wouldn't have to install a permanent exit through the transom, or tie it into your manual bilge pump discharge hose, or whatever ... you'd just throw the pump-out hose over the side of the boat and discharge the water that way. I suppose you could discharge it into the cockpit and let the scuppers take care of it too, if you don't mind getting the cockpit floor wet.

Anyway, I'm going to figure it out sooner or later ... 'seems like a pretty practical solution to me.

'Hope that helps ... good luck!

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - buzz maring on 05/14/2003 13:37:49

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John Mason
Admiral

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Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 14:47:28

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
(On a side note If there actually were a hole in the boat, it would be sitting on the bottom of the body of water it sails upon, not floating at the top.)
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Holes can exist above the waterline.

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

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Champipple
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Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 15:10:31

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Holes can exist above the waterline.

John Mason

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

True - But then it wouldn't necessarily be a problem that would require pulling the boat

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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tzk53s
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 21:21:57

I am going to go with Leon on this one as well. Grab the sheets and lets get on the water. I also think it prudent to have a pretty good idea of the source of water as well. As far as safety goes, haveing the ability to dump water at a high rate "hands free" whilst attending to other possibly important matters seems prudent. This is the main reason I justified the cost. Call it future insurance against something happening that is unforseen far from safe harbor. The high flow pump can go under the companionway, an effective small sump can go between the cabin sole and outer hull amidships. Good luck!

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CB
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 05/15/2003 : 09:24:02

Thanks for all of the tips, my water is coming though a few spots on the topside. I have fixed a couple of leaks, but they seem to keep popping up. When I have the time I'm going to rebed the windows this spring. This should help out substantially.
Thanks again,
Chris

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Douglas
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Response Posted - 05/15/2003 : 12:22:05

Well Duane we can always agree to disagree. More than one point of view is always better. Im concerned that if the boat is a swinger and has a ruptured keel trunk or a seeping too hull fitting it may need attention more than wasting money on a bilge pump. It takes a couple of inches of water for most pumps to be able to pick it up. Even a bit more to float a switch. If its rain water fine. If its lake water or salt why would you sail in a boat with a known problem. Sounds a bit foolhardy to me to put yourself or a passenger at risk just for a little fun. The manual pup is an easy fix. A repair kit or a guzler pump are good replacement. It could be just debris in the flaper valve. I have to ask myself if you install an electric pump and dont fix the leak how long will the battery last. I guess you could keep a charger on the battery to keep it charged. But then you would have to be at a dock all the time. I recomend fixing the leaks and rebuilding or replacing the pump. A portable is a great idea. Mount a whale pump on a section of wood. Move it where needed. With attachments you could even pump out the holding tank.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - Douglas on 05/15/2003 17:16:09

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Champipple
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Response Posted - 05/15/2003 : 15:24:52

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Well Duane we can always agree to disagree. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Agreed

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - Duane Wolff on 05/15/2003 15:25:45

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dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 05/15/2003 : 21:34:55

I believe that a boats primary pump should always be a manual pump with electric pumps serving only as a backup. Why? Because the manual pump will continue to work even with dead batteries.

Say you are out on the water one night a couple of hours from land, you break a to-hull, and you're taking on water. You turn your electric pumps on and they start running continously, dewatering the compartment while you point the boat to the nearest landfall. After awhile, the electric pumps start to slow as the batteries are slowly being drained.

Suddenly, your batteries are totally dead! How do you know? Because the sound of water being pumped over the side has stopped,...and your VHF radio is no longer receiving weather reports, the navigation lights are extinguished, the autopilot is still, the depth gauge reads nothing, and the hardwired 12vdc GPS/Chartplotter is dark...and you are still taking on water.

If the primary pump were a manual pump, you would probably have a tired arm, but you would also have a VHF radio, navigation lights, an autopilot, a depth gage, and your GPS.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Dave B
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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2003 : 22:21:57

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
...Say you are out on the water one night a couple of hours from land, you break a to-hull, and you're taking on water. ...
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
If you still have to-hulls, all the more reason to carry cone-shaped wooden plugs, with one taped next to each to-hull. If a to/thru hull goes completely, a manual pump won't keep up for long--a bucket will be required. Nonetheless, I agree on the manual pump. Gotta replace mine--broken diapham, apparently due to ice from using it this winter without enough antifreeze in the bilge...

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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Champipple
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Response Posted - 05/16/2003 : 08:30:37

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Say you are out on the water one night a couple of hours from land, you break a to-hull, and you're taking on water. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Provided the water is warm enough to swim in. You throw in a dowel plug (shoddily at best) - fire up your motor and your bilge pumps and head for 35+ feet of murky un-divable water...Put on the PFD and call the coast guard with your exact location. When you get in, call your insurance guy and accept the check with tears in your eyes.

Or, if you want to keep the boat - do what Dave Says...

DW

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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deastburn
Captain

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Response Posted - 05/21/2003 : 18:18:29

I agree with Don. Manual pump as primary, electric as backup. I just bought one (to have something new to install during commissioning, not because Wood Duck has ever needed it). I plan on wiring it to a switch on my new switch panel. I always kill all power before leaving the boat on her mooring anyway.

So maybe I'll bring the bilge pump back to West Marine...

I do keep a small sack of bungs and rags in an easy-to-reach place, just in case. Way more effective than a bilge pump if you acquire a hole. Two summers ago a 42' motor launch dragged its anchor and tried to sink "Wood Duck". We were lucky--came out of it with a few new scratches on the boot stripe (and some practice swearing in French).

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RoofRoof
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Response Posted - 05/22/2003 : 15:38:39

My 1979 SK had a bilge pump and float switch installed by the previous owner. It is under the access plates on the sole of the cabin. Right under the dining table. There is enough room ther for both the bilge pump and float switch.

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