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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

centerboard management

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jeanetcarole
Deckhand

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Canada
17 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/13/2003 : 18:28:05

New member and user of a water ballast centerboard # 44 .
I tried to lift the filled centerboard from the cockpit rope and cound not lift it more than 20 inches. Am I doing something wrong ?
What is the good way to lift it without using a 2 man power pull.
Note: The air vent was closed but the valve ( under the step in the cabin ) was open.
Please comment

Thanks

Jean

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2003 : 18:48:47

Whoah......the centerboard and the ballast have absolutely nothing to do with each other. From what you say I gather the boat is in the water, have you seen it out? Is the board up or down?

The ballast is a double bottom/tank glassed into the boat. When you look under the V-berth and the settees, you're looking at the top of it, with the vent hose plumbed into the very front of it. There's indeed the valve in the bottom step which, when you push down on it pushes out the round metal disc on the bottom and lets in the water. If you look in the little inspection hole under the aft bertth into the bilge you look at the back of the tank. When you launch the boat you open the vent and the valve, when the noises stop you close them. Done, end of story. (There are some people doing advanced ballast management like pumping in air to empty it out and make her float higher which makes retrieval to the trailer easier, but don't worry about that for now.)

The centerboard is fiberglas and solid, probably about 3 inches thick. Part of it rotates up into the trunk (the one you see inside), which passes through the ballast tank, but is completely separate from it. The board hinges on a pin on the front end, which is held onto the boat with two plates and four bolts. When the boat is out of the water you can see them clearly.
There's about 90 pounds of lead in the bottom of it, to help it go down when the pulley is released. The pulley line (stainless from the board up to a nylon line purchase inside) is attached to the rear end of the board, and is used to pull the centerboard up. This should not require much effort. If it does, it's either in the pulley system binding, or binding in the trunk (swelled up CB/ debrees), or in the hinge pin in the front.

First thing to do is to play with the rope part of the pulley system and make sure it runs freely, nothing's binding and none of the blocks are messed up. If that all works properly its either the steel line binding up, the board binding in the trunk, or the hinge pin.
So far most people will probably agree with me, and from hereon forward the opinions will differ as what to do.
If it was my boat, I would go to a marina, pay (or beg/schmooze) to have a travellift lift the boat out of the water/off the trailer. Then you can see if the board swings freely, and you can see how the steel line is going up and down.

I'll stop now, I'm sure there will be many more people to offer advice on this one.

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot.jpg" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway in Behtlehem, PA ready to go anytime.

Edited by - Oscar on 06/13/2003 19:16:57

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2003 : 06:58:24

My addition to what Oscar says is based on your early hull number. The Block and tackle arangement calls for a twist shackle on one end and a regular on the other. I found on my boat, that the twist shackle was on the top. This turned the b&T so that the line leading off the tackle did so at a significant angle. The result was that twist knots were induced into the b&t and of course fouled it.

As Oscar said, examine the b&t. The twist shackle should be at the bottom eye strap and the regular shackle at the top. If the change is necessary on your boat, it will rotate the b&t 90 degrees and correct the lead angle of the center board retract line.

Also, the upper wire cable block is nickle plated and if hauled very hard, the sides of the block can compress towards the sheave and the nickle finish will drag considerably. Check it for free operation.

At the bottom of the radiator type hose in which the cable exits the boat... is whats called a turning ball. This ball is very often the point at which great drag occurs. It can be checked while the boat is on the trailer by crawling under the trailer with the retract line loose and simple rolling it and inspecting for both turning and that there are no flat spots and that the cable is indeed riding in the groove. If a problem is seen with it, it can be replaced fairly easy, contact Catalina for a replacement and instructions on how to replace.

I would do these steps before putting the boat on a lift to drop the board though Oscar is correct, there is another sheave above the board that could be a problem.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2003 : 09:41:08

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> At the bottom of the radiator type hose in which the cable exits the boat... is whats called a turning ball. This ball is very often the point at which great drag occurs. It can be checked while the boat is on the trailer by crawling under the trailer with the retract line loose and simple rolling it and inspecting for both turning and that there are no flat spots and that the cable is indeed riding in the groove.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

New one to me...coming out of the groove here would do it wouldn't it? Thank you sir.

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot.jpg" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway in Behtlehem, PA ready to go anytime.

Edited by - Oscar on 06/14/2003 09:46:46

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2003 : 22:07:18

btw... the earlier hull numbers which include all up to around mid '97 do not have a stopper block on the center board. They need to be raked back to a point to balance the helm.

<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/catalina1a.jpg " border=0>

Also, here is a pic of the retract system... I will try to get these drawing added to the Association site as they will be of interest to newer owners of the earlier hulls.

<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/catalina2a.jpg " border=0>

Note the angle that the retract line leads onto the b&t. This side twisting angle is corrected by using the twist shackle on the top rather than bottom. So the installers did it like the drawing shows... but it works better the other way. If I didn't remember correctly which end to put the twist shackle on...(its been six years ago)...lets do it another way...put the twist shackle on whichever end causes the b&t to position vertical rather than horizontal.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

zebra50
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2003 : 11:36:09

While we are on the subject of the centerboard, can any one give me education on usage of it, other than up or down. I sail with it down all the way and leave it that way, unless beaching or pulling it out for trailering. Any info is greatly appreciated. thanks

Jay
Papa's Boat II
250WB #370

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2003 : 13:19:54

Raking a hinged center board aft has the effect of moving the CLR (center of lateral resistance) aft. The CLR is a major player in boat ballance which if out of whack... causes adverse weather helm which equates to serious drag which slows the boat. So, the center board can be a tool to keep the house that Jack built from tumbling down.

If you notice the strong tug of weather helm or see or hear the rudder dragging thru the water, play with raking the center board aft to correct.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

jeanetcarole
Deckhand

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Canada
17 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2003 : 18:43:47

Thanks for your great suggestions and ideas. I have not been to the marina since i sent this posting. I will be checking everything thursday afternoon and keep you informed.

Thank you all for now

Jean

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2003 : 10:31:20

Nice diagrams Arlyn. I hope people know that they can save any picture/graphic by right clicking-pc/click hold-mac and then saving the image to disc. I did, for future reference.

I think what we're seeing here is the first boat(s) getting old enough where maintenance, or the lack thereof, on parts and pieces that are out of sight out of mind, is becoming an issue.

Just like the 25 fleet, I suspect we'll be seeing this more and more. I hope you add the comprehensive "CB-once over" to the tech tip section, so we can just provide a link to it the next time the issue comes up.

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot.jpg" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway in Behtlehem, PA ready to go anytime.

Edited by - Oscar on 06/18/2003 10:34:58

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2003 : 21:53:52

To add to Arlyn's statements, if you feel substantial pressure on the tiller as the boat tries to turn up into the wind (weather helm), you can correct this by raising the centerboard a little, moving its geometric center back to counteract the forces on the sails that are pushing the aft end of the boat to leeward (thus the bow to windward). Keep in mind that a little weather helm is a good thing--among other things, it means that if you let go of the tiller, the boat will head up and stop--a safety factor. Otherwise, if you fell overboard or passed out in the cocpit, your boat could make alternating gybes to Africa or China, or the beach on the other side of the lake. <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> A little weather helm also makes the boat sail faster, but too much causes drag at the rudder which slows it some.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

mday
Navigator

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197 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2003 : 01:46:47

Arlyn,

Outstanding information!

Thanks!

Max Day
C250 WB 380
Lake Pleasant, AZ

Edited by - on

zebra50
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2003 : 20:47:04

Thanks for the information. Finally it all makes sense, sort of.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Jay
Papa's Boat II
250WB #370

Edited by - on

jeanetcarole
Deckhand

Members Avatar

Canada
17 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2003 : 21:20:54

Centerboard management

I went back to the boat and tried loosing the spaguetti like cables under the cockpit and cabin steps.
It worked...
Now I can raise the centerboard from the cockpit but with a man's pull.
Can I lubricate any of the components, and with what product, i think it would help !!!

Jean

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2003 : 21:37:04

Even when the center board line is working optimal... a significant effort is needed to hand it. There is a tech tip in the tech section for adding an electric winch. It would make a great upgrade...

I would however be selective in choice of winch... wanted would be one that would handle the line but not be destructive if something were amiss with the board coming up.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2003 : 21:08:21

Oscar/Arlyn - send me some text for this thread, and we'll grab the great pictures and add this to the C250 tech tips

<img src="http://www.indiscipline.org/cat25/pictures/icon.jpg" border=0>Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

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