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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Fire dangers of alcohol stoves

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deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/24/2003 : 23:54:29

Last weekend I was out sailing around the boats moored in the outer harbor at my home port, Vineyard Haven, Massachusetts, when I heard a call for help on the radio. I looked over my shoulder and less than a quarter mile away a sailboat was on fire, by then fully involved. I checked to make sure people were on the scene and no one was on the boat or in the water and got out of there to leave room for the competent authorities.

The article on the boat fire came out today in the local paper (www.mvtimes.com) and it is a warning to all of us. The boat was a Catalina 30, the fire started when an inexperienced crew member attempted to light the Princess stove (pressurized alcohol) while the skipper and the rest of the crew were away, got alcohol all over everything, and did not know where the fire extinguishers were. Fortunately, no one was hurt. Some conclusions for myself:

1) I am glad I replaced the old curtain burner with an Origo 3000 non-pressurized stove. The old Princess was a fine stove, if instructions were carefully followed. But no margin for error by the inexperienced. And a reminder that on a boat any open flame is to be treated with care and respect;

2) Tomorrow I buy a second and a third fire extinguishers. One is not enough, even when prominently displayed. “Wood Duck’s” extinguisher is at least seven years old, never been checked since I owned her. (Playing with fire?);

3) Alcohol fires can be doused with plain water (if no extinguisher falls readily to hand), at least until something else starts burning;

4) When leaving crew on board, be specific about what is OK or not OK for them to do. A mean captain has a happier crew than a captain with no boat.

Wood Duck #2616
Vineyard Haven, MA

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 01:43:04

I just read the news article. What a terrible loss! At least no one was injured. One item to point out is the incredible speed of this fire. It seems like it only took less than 5 minutes from the moment the fire started to the whole boat engulfed in flames. The point is that our boats are chock-full of highly flammable upholstery fabric and polyurethane foam cushions, hundreds of pounds of polyester resin, and the plywood bulkheads and balsa deck coring. If a fire gets started, you might have only a few seconds to take effective action before the fire spreads past the point that it can be dowsed with the typicsl size 10 extinguisher that most of us have on board.

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Sacramento, CA

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Mark Maxwell
Captain

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USA
329 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 01:51:13

Just a quick tip. If you have a dry-chem type extinguisher (typical) The stuff inside is a very fine powder and can become tightly packed at the bottom causing it to not discarge completely, even if a full charge is on the gauge. You should shake the extinguisher at least twice a year to keep it loose.

Be safe, Sail smart.

<img src="http://www.chaplin-nest.com/unkarock/usflagwav.gif" border=0>
Mark-
'Impulse'
C25 #533 DINN/FIN ~_/)~
Bakersfield, CA.

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jsummerfield
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 09:31:09

Alternative Stoves
I recently reacquired my previously owned Catalina 25. I still have the Princess. I have never used it before and do not plan to now. I dread the use of any alcohol stove. Let me know if the Origo is really safe.

This week I plan to bring an old electric skillit and buy a small microwave oven for use at the dock. I will consider one of the small rail-mounted propane grills for use at anchor. Other ideas are welcome.

Alcohol Stoves
When lighting or using an alcohol stove, consider keeping a bucket full of water handy. We normally have at least one-gallon of dringking water in the galley. Use a funnel to fill. Never refill the stove or a priming cup with alcohol from a fuel container when it is hot or burning. If an alcohol fire occurs, extinguish it by diluting the alcohol with water. If the stove gets water on it, rinse it with fresh water and dry it before attempting to light the stove.

Fire Extinguishers
In addition to water, use the dry chemical fire extinguisher, especially if the fire ignites other flammable material. I think that the Coast Guard requires two for a 25-foot sailboat with outboard. Add more. Assure that dry chemical fire extinguishers are within easy reach when needed. Everyone on board should learn to use the extinguisher before needed. Occasionally check the pressure gauge on each extinguisher - the box says monthly. To use, aim the nozzle at the base of the fire. After use, clean up the mess and plan to buy a replacement extinguisher.

While cleaning out the mess left by the previous owner, I found only two extinguishers and one was bad. I bought a pair of new extinguishers at WM this week for about $30. I now have three - one behind the stove and another behind the fiddles on port and starboard. I plan to have another extinguisher in the cockpit locker with my other emergency gear. Right now they are "adrift". The extinguishers came with a mounting bracket and no screws. This "should" be fixed within days.

John
C25 3973 FK/SR
To be renamed "Texas Tango" 26 July 2003

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 09:55:45

For occasional cooking, check out the "Glowmaster" butane stove... very convenient, instant lighting etc.

http://www.americanewsnet.com/products/emergsup/stove.htm

For marine use, stainless potholders, retaining brackets etc. are available. (see link below)

http://w1.adhost.com/seamar/gohtml/seamar_accessories/accessories_35.html

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 10:01:30

John,

I changed from the original Princess to an Origo 3000 the second summer with Snickerdoodle (1986) after Kathy melted the curtain "rods" with a flair up from the Princess. Since then, we have cooked everything from a simple pot of boiling water for tea or hot chocolate, to homemade clam chowder, to fairly elaborate two burner dinners. All with no muss and no fuss.

I'd be looking at very stiff resistance from Kathy if I ever talked about changing back.

The Origo is a bit "spendy", but compared to the alternatives - I'd say money well spent.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 10:50:18

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
For occasional cooking, check out the "Glowmaster" butane stove... very convenient, instant lighting etc.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I chucked my Princess after the very first time I used it, and acquired a compact butane stove from a vendor on Yahoo Shopping for $15. Now, I'm HAPPILY enjoying that first cup of coffee in the morning. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

J.B. Manley, Antares '86 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' The Cherokees, NE Oklahoma

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Ellis Bloomfield
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 11:16:16

Another issue is the size of the fire extinguisher. The small cheap ones may well put out a fire if you catch it right away but they are only good for a few puffs and if the fire has spread may not do the job. It would be good to have a larger one near the back door or in the cockpit in case the fire spreads into the resin or cushions although it's probably a done deal by that time. If I remember right a couple of members are in the insurance business and they could comment on extinguisher size and the dangers involved with the very small ones.
Ellis

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 11:21:44

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Let me know if the Origo is really safe.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
John: Obviously, the key difference is the lack of pressure. The Origo lights like a sterno can, has a "lazy" flame that admittedly does not cook quite like propane, and uses a simple sliding damper to lower or extinguish the flame. Alcohol is safe to store in plastic jugs anywhere in the boat. Any fumes dissipate and are no threat. Its volatility is so low that the spun-glass material in the Origo is needed to create the vapor density required for it to burn. That's why it's pressurized in the Princess. (Nonetheless, we fill the Origo cannisters out in the cockpit.) A non-pressurized alcohol flame does, however, generate a slight odor.

Propane and butane must be stored where any leaks won't allow the gas to migrate to the low points in the boat. (NEVER in the "dumpster".) All connections inside the boat should be checked regularly for leaks. (Your kitchen at home doesn't get pounded like your boat does.) Disconnected cannisters have been known to leak due to faulty check valves. Installed and used properly, they do cook faster with less smell.

Electric applicances are not without their risks, especially if your shore power system is shaky. The most common problem is corrosion at the external receptical, which can produce enough heat to start a fire.

We like our Origo--especially not having to worry about it. But we don't do serious culinary work on the boat...

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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