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Spinnaker: cruising or racing

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Geoff A
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/11/2003 : 12:04:09

I currently have a racing shute on my boat. It is a wonderful sail that looks brand new, but my problem is that my crew (ages 3 and 5) have a hard time trimming the sail and setting the pole. They are just a little to short to reach. I was thinking about selling my spinnaker and pole to get a cruising shute. Is it worth keeping mine to keep the value of the boat or would most people be happy to have a cruising shute? I love sail with a spinnaker but never have crew to help me with it. Any thoughts?

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 13:33:11

Hi Geoff,

Why not simply rig your spinnaker as if it were a cruising chute? A tack line off one lower corner secured to the stem fitting and both sheets shackled to the other lower corner. Several of the skippers around here do this if they're single handing or just don't want to bother with the pole.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 14:13:17

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Hi Geoff,

Why not simply rig your spinnaker as if it were a cruising chute? A tack line off one lower corner secured to the stem fitting and both sheets shackled to the other lower corner. Several of the skippers around here do this if they're single handing or just don't want to bother with the pole.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hi Bill,

One of these days I'm going to buy some sort of spinnaker, so I generally follow the threads on spinnakers even though I don't yet have one. Since I single-hand all the time, I need to figure out how to do this without messing with a pole, too.

I hope this isn't a stupid question ... I've never been able to visualize this ... how do you jibe when the spinnaker is flying in front of the forestay? Wouldn't you end up with a tangled mess of sheets? When you jibe, what keeps the spinnaker from wrapping around the forestay?

Thanks for the help ... I'm still waiting for my spinnaker light bulb to turn on. <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 16:28:20

This probably is not the RIGHT way, but I choose to jibe my chute through the fore-triangle, like an oversized genoa. Nice to have someone on deck, as once in awhile she'll snag for a sec. or two on the spreaders, but it works for me. Requires shorter sheets than having the lazy one go clear around the forestay.

I also choose to tack my chute to a shackle on the end of a line that goes through blocks back to the cockpit where it's anchored with a camcleat with fairlead. When on a run, I slide the line out so that the tack goes up; down when reaching. Seems to help. A carabiner from the tack around the forestay works for me. Obviously, I use hank on sails, not roller furling. I have done this same thing with a symetrical sail when not wishing to mess with the pole as well as with the somewhat smaller cruising chute I now use, even when racing.

Gary Bruner
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 16:32:16

BTW, Geoff: If you choose to sell your symetrical racing chute, I might be interested. During our Six Pac Race, the final leg is usually a 25 mile run downwind, upstream on the Columbia River. My cruising chute becomes a bit more of a liability on THAT long of a run! Since we slow cruising boats all race level, the PHRF handicap hit I would take is not an issue. Let me know.

Gary B.
Encore! # 685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 18:56:15

The adjustable "downhaul" that Gary B. has on his asymmetrical really works well. <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle> We probably had a 3' differential in the height of the tack between reaching and running. The only change I would make would be to bring it to a cleat on the side of the cabin top so that when necessary I could put the line on a winch - it gets darn hard to trim it in 20 knots!
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 19:45:58

Hi Buzz,

Unlike Gary, I jibe my cruising spinnaker in front of the forestay. Here's how it goes:

First, remember that the clew corner has both sheets shackled there. The loaded sheet is holding the clew while the lazy sheet leads forward of the forestay and back to the cockpit on the windward quarter. Generally, the lazy sheet rests on the top bar of the bow pulpit and touches the forestay.

Remember that you will be jibing from broad reach to broad reach - about an eighty to ninety degree turn. So, before you start the jibe, figure out what your new course heading is.

As you start the jibe, put the helm about halfway over and release the loaded spinnaker sheet completely so that the sail becomes a big flag. Sheet the mainsail in to the middle of the boat as if close hauled. Be patient! Let the spinnaker billow out in front of your boat before you start to sheet it back to the new leeward side. As you settle onto your new course, ease the mainsheet so that the main is trimmed properly. That's it.

For the first few attempts, sail with the mainsail furled on the boom.....just the spinnaker up. You will soon get a good idea regarding how everything works.
BTW: the reason for sheeting the mainsail in is so that the main won't blanket the spinnaker so much.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 19:55:27

Thanks, Bill ... that is a BIG help! My spinnaker light bulb is starting to flicker on ... <img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - on

Geoff A
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 23:46:26

I use to fly my spinnaker that way on my 22. I will try it on my 25 and see how it works. The spinnaker on my catalina 22 was too big for the boat and I could only reach with it so when there was any wind, the boat was overpowered really fast. I love to set a spinnaker but never have the crew. I tried one day while single handling the boat with the autohelm and very light winds. It was too much for me to handle.

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2003 : 09:30:10

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
...BTW: the reason for sheeting the mainsail in is so that the main won't blanket the spinnaker so much.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
...and so the main and boom won't generate huge forces against the rig at the end of the jibe--especially the wimpy little traveler. I don't have a chute, and usually avoid jibes, but I recommend always sheeting in tightly before/during any jibe. I hate watching booms flying around on people's boats! <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

It's especially critical with our end-boom sheeting--if somebody gets clotheslined in a jibe, it could be a very serious problem!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - dave b on 08/12/2003 09:38:07

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2003 : 11:13:15

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I tried one day while single handling the boat with the autohelm and very light winds. It was too much for me to handle.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Was that on the C22 or the C25, Geoff? I also singlehand and would like to get a spinnaker some day soon, but won't spend the boat bucks if I can't set and handle it singlehandedly.

J.B. Manley, Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' The Cherokees, NE Oklahoma

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2003 : 12:46:39

Hi JB,

I single hand with my cruising chute on Snickerdoodle fairly often. Generally in less than 12 knots of breeze though. My old Tillerpilot handles the steering duties more than adequately. More wind than this, I think I'd want at least one other person aboard as crew.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2003 : 13:14:42

Thanks, Bill. I was thinking about buying one to use in real light air, as well. Figured that wing-n-wing with the 150 would probably be as efficient, but easier to handle, in moderate air, and just the 110 or 80 staying on a broad reach in heavy air. So, I was concerned that there might be some other rigging or handling problem for the singlehander.

J.B. Manley, Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' The Cherokees, NE Oklahoma

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2003 : 11:53:46

Like Bill, I often fly my asymetrical chute singlehanded. Then, though, I use the chute scoop (although an ATN is better, I understand). That eliminates much of the angst about setting and dousing. The autopilot controls the boat while I am on the foredeck.

When racing, however, I take the scoop off and fly the spinnaker directly out of the turtle. We are now dousing the spinnaker into the cabin from the leeward side of the newly hoisted genoa. It is much faster and has proven to work best for racing on Encore! Of course, it's then that I have a crew of at least 2 plus the skipper. Practice is making this easier all the time.

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

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Geoff A
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2003 : 11:49:52

I tried on my 25 to fly the spinnaker while singlehandling the boat. With the pole it was too much. That is why I was thinking a crusing shute would be better for my needs. Do the spinnaker socks work good? I am hoping to try again this weekend with some crew. Another few questions? How much wind is too much to fly the spinnaker? And what do you do if you start to broach (other than makind sure you cabin is closed)? That is, do your turn more down wind, let out the sheet or the guy?

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