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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Keel Assembly and Leaking Standpipe

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falco_esq
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/19/2003 : 14:59:12

Hello,

I have had a 1983 Catalina 25 for about a month now. Last Friday, I found the boat with about 4 inches of water in it. I pumped it out and on Saturday it had 8 inches. To make a long story short, I took it out of the water on Sunday.

The problem is where the chain for the swing keel goes down into the hull. The pvc standpipe is cracked where the pipe meets the bottom of the hull. (Standpipe is the best term I can think of to describe it.) The chain for the keel is also apparently broken and will not lower the keel. I got all of this from the boat shop, and they tell me it will be $2300.00 to repair. They say they need to glass a new pipe. Persoanlly, I cannot believe that the chain is broken, I know the keel has been down. Anyone have any advice? It really seems like something easy to fix.

JMR

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2003 : 15:35:11

Hi Jason,

I'm sorry I don't have time to write a thorough reply right now, but my best advice would be to HOLD OFF on the $2300 repair!

First ... the PVC pipe is not what keeps the water out. There is a very tough rubber hose (like a radiator hose) that attaches to the bottom of the hull ... there are supposed to be two stainless steel hose clamps that hold it on ... THAT is what keeps the water out. Your leak might be something as simple as the rubber hose has worked loose.

Second ... it isn't a chain that raises and lowers the keel, it is a stainless steel cable. Catalina Direct sells the cable, fittings, rubber hose, turning ball, and everything else you need to replace the whole raising/lowering hardware for less than $100 ... it is EASY to do yourself.

I've got to scoot to take care of some business ... I'll add more later if no one addresses your problem more completely!

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - on

wa4htz
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2003 : 15:47:53

JMR,
I have an '84 swing keel. When I bought the boat it was on a trailer so it was easy to work on the keel. I replaced almost everything related to the keel mechanism and learned a lot. The keel is raised and lowered by a stainless steel cable on a friction-release Fulton winch. The PVC pipe is just cosmetic. Inside of that there is, if I remember correctly, 1.5 inch reinforced rubber hose (I think it's actually diesel exhaust hose) hose-clamped (2 clamps) to a short brass or bronze pipe which is what is acutally glassed into the hull. The PVC pipe doesn't keep the water out but everyting else does! You could have something as simple as a loose hose clamp on the reinforced hose. If you have any mechanical skills at all, you should be able to fix this yourself. And for a whole lot less than $2300!!!! WOW, I must be in the wrong business!

The first step is to support the back end of the keel. It would be really good if you could get the top edge of the keel below the hull so you can get to the cable attachment point. Next, with the keel supported, back the winch off a bit to get slack in the cable. Then just unscrew the winch from the companion way steps and set it aside. There are nuts on the winch side of the screws, so you'll need a deep well socket to hold them. You will have to unwind more cable from the winch to be able to lay it on something. Then just slide the PVC pipe up to expose the hose and clamps. My PVC pipe was not attached; it just sat on the keel trunk. Now you can start checking to see what is leaking. Unless you cranked the keel up too far the last time you did it, I kind of doubt the bronze pipe would have started leaking all by itself. That sounds more typical of a loose hose clamp or bad hose. I sure hope this epistile helps! I would hate to see you have to pay $2300 to get it fixed. I was able to replace everything except the keel and the hanger brackets (winch, cable, pivot pin, hanger bolts, etc.) for way, way less than that.
BTW, congrats on your "new" C-25. They really are great boats.

As a C-25 owner, one of your best friends (besides the great folks on the association site) will be Catalina Direct. They sell more Catalina parts than anyone else but the factory (so they say, and I believe it). Go to their web site, www.catalinadirect.com, and check out the C-25 parts. They also have a book/catalog for the 25 which, in addition to listing all of the parts they sell, includes many diagrams and maintenance procedures. The swing keel mechanism description is very well done.

Good luck and I hope this helps.

Ken
"Bolero" - TR/SK #4357

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2003 : 15:57:32

Hey Ken ... great post! I felt kinda' bad leaving an incomplete reply ... you filled in the gaps, and you even supplied the Catalina Direct link.

Jason, the only thing I'll add for now is here is a link to the Catalina 25 parts catalog showing the swing keel assembly:

[url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/manbro/pictures/pc13.gif"]Swing Keel Assembly[/url]

Please let us know if you've got any questions ... good luck!

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - on

jncarlin
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2003 : 16:21:38

Hi JMR:

I replaced the keel cable 2 months ago - got all the parts from Catalina Direct, including the rubber hose. As I was loosing the old PVC pipe, the old rubber hose that was in it actually crumbled in my hand - the marina guy who was helping me commented that I was very lucky to do the replacement at this time, as the old PVC/rubber hose combination would probably have failed while the boat was in the water - and my boat would have sunk!!!!! Indeed, the PVC pipe was hiding the deteriation of the rubber hose.

Its easy to replace (there is a lot of advice and tips on the forum) - but don't get ripped off. Do it yourself (or with the help of a helper).

Joe Carlin

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2003 : 16:45:14

Hopefully we just saved falco about $2200...

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2003 : 17:51:04

Wow! $2200!! Let's see...new motor...3 new sails...bottom job & 2 new sails...just think of the possibilities! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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cch
Navigator

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202 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2003 : 19:17:43

Hi JMR,

I agree with everyone here. In the 8 years we have owned our boat we have had to replace the cable 3 times. The first time was when we first boought the boat and were having problems similar to yours. Pretty easy fix.

Don't become discouraged, these are great boats. We have had to replace our cable fairly frequently because we are in warm shallow salt water. On a typical sailing day we may raise and lower the keel a few times.

Due to some of these reasons we are switching to a wing keel with an estimated cost of 3,000 to 4,000 so 2,300 seems very expensive for your repair regardless of the problem.

Chris Hunsicker
Panama City FL
Moonglade
80 C25 #2126 sr/sk
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d636b3127cce8c9d4c83e7890000002010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Todd Frye
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2003 : 11:20:46

Lots of good advise. Just another thought, which Joe Carlin touched on. If you feel so inclined, let the board members know your location and you may find another C-25 owner close enough to drop by and give you a hand. I have yet to find a sailor who wouldn't make time to get together to mess about with boats. Good luck. Todd Frye

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2003 : 13:33:26

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Wow! $2200!! Let's see...new motor...3 new sails...bottom job & 2 new sails...just think of the possibilities! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I wish my wife would let me do my accounting this way derek....Lets see, new glass repair job, did it myself, saved 500. Rewired boat myself, saved 250. Painted bottom myself, saved 400. Hey honey, I saved us a lot of money we never had...can I go spend it!!!!
<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

When you reattach that radiator (for lack of better term) hose be sure to use two hose clams. Same goes for anything else below the water line.

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/images/layout/category_images/t_3964.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2003 : 13:38:56

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Lots of good advise. Just another thought, which Joe Carlin touched on. If you feel so inclined, let the board members know your location and you may find another C-25 owner close enough to drop by and give you a hand. I have yet to find a sailor who wouldn't make time to get together to mess about with boats. Good luck. Todd Frye

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

This post made me think of an idea Todd. What if we were to post a list of major projects and corresponding members who have done them. That way people beginning a project can contact them for some pre project advice. We could put this in the members area so that it would be another benefit going beyond those we already have...At their discretion they can give out home numbers etc. Then, when people get to the Oh $#!t stage of a project, they have somewhere to go for some words of wisdom without having to go back to the computer... ???????????

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/images/layout/category_images/t_3964.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2003 : 13:50:22

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The problem is where the chain for the swing keel goes down into the hull. The pvc standpipe is cracked where the pipe meets the bottom of the hull. (Standpipe is the best term I can think of to describe it.) The chain for the keel is also apparently broken and will not lower the keel. I got all of this from the boat shop, and they tell me it will be $2300.00 to repair. They say they need to glass a new pipe. Persoanlly, I cannot believe that the chain is broken, I know the keel has been down. Anyone have any advice? It really seems like something easy to fix.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

A few other notes that I thought I might ad. It looks like most of your other responses assumed that you didn't know it was a cable. If it really is/was a chain, you might have some other problems. DPO, (dumb previous owners) have been known to do a lot more stupid things than that. If it really was a chain, it will need to be replaced with a cable. Your boatyard might be right about the bad glass work too. The chain may have cracked the fiber glass around the brass fitting. Hopefully, its just the hose mentioned in above posts, but if the glass is cracked fear not. The repair is more time consuming than it is costly. (glass isn't cheap, but it sure isn't 2 grand.)

If you do need to do the glass repair, purchase all of the items above noted in the few posts, new hose, pvc pipe, keel cable ets. You'll still need those, then take a look at the west system link from our links page, (also below). These guys are the un-official authority on fiberglass resins. http://www.westsystem.com/ You'll find just about everything you need on their site on how to repair that area. Feel free to contact me via email as well if you have any glass questions...

Duane

Hopefully, you're just dealing with a hose and hose clamps...

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/images/layout/category_images/t_3964.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - Duane Wolff on 08/22/2003 13:52:07

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