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cunningham

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Shawn
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/23/2003 : 19:52:51

Does anyone out there have pics of their cunningham set up that could be posted? Otherwise a detailed explanation of your set up. Both would be very helpful.
I own a 1980 tall rig, fin keel. I have installed the mast base plate to mount turning blocks and run lines aft. My base plate only has flanges and holes on the sides (port & starboard) not fore and aft as some I've seen. I have the boom vang mounted to a boom bale (bail?) at the mast base. It seems that the cunningham should be mounted at the same location, but I think this would overload the bale and also not allow the vang to travel side to side for different tacks.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Shawn
1980 C25 tr/fk #1960

Edited by - shawn on 08/23/2003 20:43:04

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2003 : 23:22:44

There has been considerable discussion of Cunninghams during the past month. Suggest you run a search. I use a Cunningham hook attached to the end of a line led through a block at the mast base plate back to a simple jam cleat on the cabin top. If I need extra leverage, there is a winch close at hand to provide that. One advantage to this arrangement is that it does not load the gooseneck. A disadvantage is lack of leverage or purchase.

Dave on "Wood Duck" (2616)

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2003 : 14:21:58

I've rigged the Cunningham on Sparky this way:

1. Line goes from cleat on starboard side of mast
up thru Cunningham cringle on sail and starts
down port side of mast.
2. At that point I have installed a 2:1 purchase
tackle (light line and blocks are used). With the line
running from cleat up thru cringle that makes a total 4:1
purchase.
3. The throw of the tackle will have to be adusted
(that's the distance the tackle travels.
4. The line from the tackle goes through a block on the
mastplate (pick the best hole that lines up according
to whatever else you have attached to the plate).
5. From the block at the mast plate the line is led thru
a fairlead to a cam cleat on the coach roof.

This setup works very well and one can flatten the sail
with little effort. It also works in tandem as a mini-reef
when used with a flattening reef set-up at the leech
a la Tech Tips. Hope that's clear.

Paul C25FK Sparky
'PZ' W7JVY KFS/KTK/KLB/KOK/WNU/KPH/WCC/VAI/VAJ

Edited by - on

eric.werkowitz
Captain

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USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2003 : 20:21:59

Paul,

Why didn't I think of that? I just rigged my cunningham and bought a hook for it. Today I had the first outing with it and my halyard and single line reefing led aft. Love the set up, but when I dropped the sail out popped the hook. I realized this was going to be a recurring problem both raising and lowering the sail. I don't know why it didn't occur to me to handle it like the reefing system. Thanks for the idea.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

Edited by - eric.werkowitz on 08/24/2003 22:25:13

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deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2003 : 20:56:25

Paul:

I like your setup. By starting the Cunningham line on the mast (rather than the boom), you avoid loading the gooseneck unnecessarily, which I like to avoid. I suppose you could simplify even further by starting the line on the mast at a padeye.

I agree the C-hook can be annoying--it drops out when the sail is reefed or folded onto the boom. On the other hand, it's nice to have to go forward for something...!

Dave on "Wood Duck" (#2616)

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 20:10:09

Using a cunningham hook, it will ALWAYS fall out, since the hook isn't too hooked, it's just an angle.

Either try the "through the grommet" routine, which works for us on our boat, or buy one of those S hooks, which will stay on the sail, we had that on our C25. Found, even here on SF Bay we didn't need the extra two part purchase.

Rather than a padeye on the mast, try a small cleat and tie the cunningham line through the base with a figure eight knot, then can still use the cleat. Same two holes, but maybe more uses. Downside, horns may catch or hangup some lines. Careful placement brings potential rewards.

Stu

Edited by - on

Shawn
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2003 : 20:18:58

Paul,
Thanks for the explanation of your set up. It was very helpful. I will give it a try.
Dave, Thankyou as well. I tried a search on "cunningham" on this site and didn't come up with anything useful, so I posted the question. Whenever I do a search, I get portions of old replies and the same one is repeated several times. Is this a common result for the rest of you?
I also now realize that I made a mistake in my post. I like the cunningham suggestions, and will use them. But what I think I was after was a downhaul setup. I want to be able to put additional tension on the whole luff of the main after hoisting. I have seen these systems on other boats, and there is a hole on the bottom of the gooseneck that looks like a mount for a block. I was picturing a block and tackle system similar to a vang, only vertical instead of at an angle. It also seems that this should be mounted in line with the mast to minimize any horizontal stress on the gooseneck.
Currently, I have my boom locked in a low enough position that when I fully hoist the main there is a tight luff, I then use the halyard for adjustment in tension. It just seems there should be an easier way to fine tune. This may be the cunningham as written above, but I thought the cunningham was more of a flattenig reef.
Please give me guidance and end my confusion.

Shawn
1980 C25 tr/fk #1960

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2003 : 10:51:07

Shawn, on "This Side Up" I use a cunningham hook attached to a 3 to 1 tackle which then runs thru' a block on the mast plate, thru' a deck organiser and back to a cam cleat at the end of the cabin top. I don't have a boom downhaul. In winds up to "moderate" we don't even tension the cunningham - it's one of our depowering adjustments when the wind does pipe up. Unless you are being overpowered you do not need excess tension on the main halyard - it brings the draft forward and depowers the main. It's also as slow as molasses down wind.
Yes, the hook falls out each time we furl the sail but that's a very minor inconvenience!
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2003 : 12:43:05

On Sparky, I have a 4:1 outhaul on the main. The control line goes back along the boom to just beneath the gooseneck and then down to
a hinged cam cleat near the base of the mast. From there the line ends
up in the cockpit. Actually I have a little bag I stuff it into in a convenient place. That set-up gives me a 4:1 outhaul and a simultaneous 2:1 downhaul. I think that set-up is seen more on smaller boats, but the C-25 is still small enough to make it convenient. Some guys like Jim on HEY JUDE, have a separate downhaul
through a similar cam cleat situation near the mast base with the line leading back to cockpit.

Paul C25FK Sparky
'PZ' W7JVY KFS/KTK/KLB/KOK/WNU/KPH/WCC/VAI/VAJ

Edited by - on

Shawn
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2003 : 22:43:36

Derek,
Thanks, this is the info I was looking for. How do you judge the halyard tension? I usually go snug (no scallops in the luff) for wind below 10-12 knots, and use the outhaul to shape the foot. It's when the breeze starts to pick up (12-15 knots) that I want to play with tensions. In my opinion, it's to soon to reef, but I want to lose more power than I can with just the outhaul.
Thanks to all for the replies. This site is a great resource. But, it's the people who post on it that make it so.

Shawn
1980 C25 tr/fk #1960

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2003 : 00:18:36

Shawn - after much experimentation we decided on these guidelines:
Under about 6 knots wind, main halyard just raised to masthead, with minmal tension. Outhaul loose to give a belly in the foot. No cunningham.
As the wind increases we gradually tension the outhaul and partially tension the cunningham. Once it gets over 12k the main halyard is fully tensioned and the outhaul all the way out. Cunningham hard on.
If we start to get overpowered then the backstay is tensioned and if still overpowered (with the wind usually around 15k+ by this time)it's time to reef! (My main has a very large roach so it's more powerful than the stock Catalina "triangle").
Hope this helps some!
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

Edited by - on

triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2003 : 20:53:03

My rig is a little like Derek's. I have a 4:1 purchase on the cunningham which is rigged from the cunningham grommet to the mast base plate and back through an organizer to a spinlock on the port side of the cabin. My wire outhaul is attached to a similarly placed grommet at the leech above the clew with a 2:1 purchase through the boom just forward of the vang to the mast base plate and through an organizer to a spinlock. I can put in a flattening reef in a jiffy, and manage to keep moving at the same time when the wind powers up to 12 or over. With the backstay adjuster I can keep my mylar 150 up and not be too over powered. It works, but I am still not too flexible over 15 without rounding up for a full jiffy reef and at higher windspeeds replacing the 150 with the 100.

Tom

Edited by - on

triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2003 : 20:53:10

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