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How deep is your water?

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/30/2003 : 10:37:31

I just read this on another thread and it startled me.
Folsom is currently at 435', which is 31' below full. The slips have to be vacated if and when the lake drops below 420'.
Larry Charlot
Catalina 25WK Mk. IV #5857 "Quiet Time"
435'! Holy Crap! Our boats can't carry a 7:1 rode for that!
Our lake is 50' at the dam and averages 15'-20'. I get spooked thinking about the giant man swallowing cat fish in our lake, what must live in a lake over 400' deep? Anyway, how deep is the water where you sail?

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 10:44:53

Grand Lake O' the Cherokees is 750' (<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle> Sid's right, and I knew that; feet above mean sea level) at the dam, 150' through the channel for most of the length of the lake, 50' cliff side on the outside of the bends and about 10' 50 yards offshore on the inside bends. Antares has an average 20' under her keel in the slip.

And, we have curious 6' Spoonbills and 4' Catfish that keep swimming in the middle of the lake interesting. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

J.B. Manley
Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' the Cherokees
36°29'58" -94°59'59"

Edited by - Antares on 09/30/2003 10:47:22

Edited by - Antares on 09/30/2003 11:40:06

Edited by - on

Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 11:25:00

:) Actually, Frank, there are no man swallowing catfish in our lake.
We do have a lake monster named CHENEYLA ... she only eats metal; spectacles, keys, wrenches, assorted boat hardware, an occasional cell phone, poorly secured outboard motors (two that I know of), anchors, PDA's, Game Boys, and seemingly anything deemed valuable by its owner.
I'm certain that she exists, that she is everywhere. Nothing at all is ever reclaimed from Cheney's muddy depths. Not even if it falls into the lake right where you are standing. Stuff is just devoured by this monster. :)

Mark L.
Cat 25 SR/SK #549

Edited by - on

Sid
Navigator

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129 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 11:36:53

Most lake levels in Texas are posted in reference to mean sea level, not actual depth. Canyon lake is 908'above msl right now, 1' below full at 909'above msl. I think the deepest part of the lake is around 200' to 225' actual depth.
Sid

77 C25 SK #21

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 11:49:23

In April of 2000 when we first put Daylight Again in the water our slip had a depth of 82 feet it is now down to 24 feet. Some old salts say it is the lowest it has ever been. The channel is still 70' plus. Pueblo is like a bathtub it can be 30 to 40 feet deep 5' off shore in most places.

A town up stream of the reservoir this spring during the run off-season was worried about the Arkansas River flooding some say the river was the highest it has ever been. Due to some agreement with our neighbors to the east, they think they deserve water from the moisture that falls in Colorado. So most of this years snow pack when right on thru the reservoir to western Kansas.

Hopefully the mountains will get a good snow pack this season or we may have to go to Kansas to sail in our water.

Bryan Beamer
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d607b3127cce8d07b033366e0000003180" border=0>
Daylight Again
C250wk #495
2003 National Champion

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 12:47:02

How deep is my water?

Last Saturday...not deep enough!

Due to a couple of consecutive days with strong winds out of the west, the water level at my marina dropped a few feet(seiche). It dropped so much that the top of my bimini was even with the top of the dock and although my boat was still afloat, I didn't want to chance taking it out and getting stuck in the somewhat shallow channel leading to open water.

Thankfully, the winds changed direction on Sunday and some of the water came back allowing me to get a few hours in ahead of a storm front.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 12:53:09

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
(seiche). It dropped so much that the top of my bimini was even with the top of the dock<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Don,

What kind of wind does it take to blow five feet of water off to the other end of the lake?

J.B. Manley
Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' the Cherokees
36°29'58" -94°59'59"

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 13:00:28

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
A town up stream of the reservoir this spring during the run off-season was worried about the Arkansas River flooding some say the river was the highest it has ever been. Due to some agreement with our neighbors to the east, they think they deserve water from the moisture that falls in Colorado. So most of this years snow pack when right on thru the reservoir to western Kansas.Bryan Beamer
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d607b3127cce8d07b033366e0000003180" border=0>
Daylight Again
C250wk #495
2003 National Champion
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

There is some history there! We had to sue Colorado for our water. Water rights are the basis of some of the oldest law on Earth. The arKANSAS river comes past my house but the lake we sail on has a tiny watershed around a small river called the Ninnesscah. Mark is right, our lake bottom is six inches of ooze around the slips and nothing comes back up once it hits.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 13:13:28

Being a Colorado native, I'm sure I could make some a priori water claim, but given that I'm looking at the Arkansas out my window right now and there is nothing but sand, it would probably be mot.

How does a state make a claim on water anyway? Considering that without man-made containments and diversions, the water of the Arkansas would belong to the Gulf of Mexico.

J.B. Manley
Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' the Cherokees
36°29'58" -94°59'59"

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 13:20:36

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>What kind of wind does it take to blow five feet of water off to the other end of the lake?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Although wind strength is certainly a factor, I find that wind direction and duration play a more significant roll in the water levels. Just one day of strong winds from the west won't affect levels too much, but a couple of days of moderate winds can really take the water away. During one particularly strong seiche in the early spring, the water level in the marina channel fell to about 1 foot.

What is a seiche? (pronounced "saysh")

Like water sloshing in a bathtub, seiches are tide-like rises and drops in Great Lakes coastal water levels caused by prolonged strong winds that push water toward one side of the lake, causing the water level to rise on the downwind side of the lake and to drop on the upwind side. When the wind stops, the water sloshes back and forth, with the nearshore water level rising and falling in decreasingly small amounts on both sides of the lake until it reaches equilibrium.

<img src="http://www.seagrant.wisc.edu/communications/_FP_Components/graphics/seiche.gif" border=0>

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 13:30:19

Canyon Lake is an interesting place to sail - a good look at the chart is a must for first-timers! There are places you can put yr bow pulpit on shore before you tack, and other spots where you can run aground 50 yards offshore! The Guadalupe River winds along the lake bottom and its channel is around 100' - 120' deep. At the dam the depth hits 160'. In my slip (on the dock closest to shore) there is 23' - 25' of water. There's a large "plateau" in the center of the lake that's about 50' deep - this is where the RC attempts to anchor!
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 14:04:48

Our "off the docks" day at the club is October 13th. that's when the lake will be down to 756' (above sea level). Our lake is full at 768, and can hold another 3 feet before it comes over the top of the dam. Right now the lakew level is at 762, so we're down 6 feet from full, and 9 feet from max lake level. At my dock I normally have 22 feet beneath the keel.

A story about a seiche. When we lived in Erie, I got a call from a friend from the club, it was dinner time. He said my Laser had been rescued at the dock east of the club's. A seiche associated with a storm we were having had raised the water 5 or 6 feet and picked it up off the shore and carried it to the dock.

More amazing is that the seiche must have been so big that it crossed Presque Isle, the peninsula that makes Presquie Isle Bay. That's the only I figure the water from the bay could gotten deep enouch to do what it did.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 14:49:40

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Being a Colorado native, I'm sure I could make some a priori water claim, but given that I'm looking at the Arkansas out my window right now and there is nothing but sand, it would probably be mot.

How does a state make a claim on water anyway? Considering that without man-made containments and diversions, the water of the Arkansas would belong to the Gulf of Mexico.

J.B. Manley
Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' the Cherokees
36°29'58" -94°59'59"
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
I think that is the point, we get reasonable usage as does OK as does TX. Colorado wanted to keep it all in a reservoir and use it all to irrigate eastern CO, (which by the way should belong to KS).<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> It is not exactly a raging river. During my child hood (before we won the case) It was a sandy path with water only if you dug down.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 15:01:53

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>...use it all to irrigate eastern CO<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Now there's a sensical plan. Sort of like a midwestern Palm Springs, only without the temperate climate.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>which by the way should belong to KS<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Given what's out there, Kansas can have it.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>During my child hood (before we won the case) It was a sandy path with water only if you dug down.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
So, Frank, if I'm reading this sentence correctly, we have Kansas to thank for there being any water in the Arkansas at all. <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

J.B. Manley
Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' the Cherokees
36°29'58" -94°59'59"

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 15:12:06

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>...use it all to irrigate eastern CO<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Now there's a sensical plan. Sort of like a midwestern Palm Springs, only without the temperate climate.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>which by the way should belong to KS<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Given what's out there, Kansas can have it.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>During my child hood (before we won the case) It was a sandy path with water only if you dug down.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
So, Frank, if I'm reading this sentence correctly, we have Kansas to thank for there being any water in the Arkansas at all. <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

J.B. Manley
Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' the Cherokees
36°29'58" -94°59'59"
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

More accurately Robert Stephen attorney general KS 1975-1988!

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 15:57:48

The depth at our dock is around 8 to 10 feet. We normally sail in anything from 20 to 40 feet of water.

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/images/layout/category_images/t_3964.jpg" border=0>

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Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 16:01:49

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I'm looking at the Arkansas out my window right now and there is nothing but sand, <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

A friend of mine was at John Martin Reservoir (the last reservoir before Kansas on the Arkansas river) a few weeks ago and said the river below the dam was running pretty good so if J.B. is looking at dirt then Kansas must have it all.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Colorado wanted to keep it all in a reservoir and use it all to irrigate eastern CO, <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

It fell in Colorado why shouldn't we keep it?

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>How does a state make a claim on water anyway? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

MHO if the moisture falls in the state boundaries it should belong to that state. I could be wrong but to my knowledge Colorado does not get any water from any other state. The reservoirs that I saw on the west side of the Colorado Centennial Divide were close to full.

Funny thing while I was posting this a radio commercial came on taking about how we have to let over 50% of our water go to water lawns in other states. Are reservoirs are low and we are on water restrictions while the water just keeps going right to Kansas.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Robert Stephen attorney general KS 1975-1988! <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

He couldn't be happy with the moisture that falls in Kansas and the water that Colorado doesn't need.

Bryan Beamer
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d607b3127cce8d07b033366e0000003180" border=0>
Daylight Again
C250wk #495
2003 National Champion

Edited by - on

Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 17:05:09

I live on the Arkansas (and thats not AR-kansas)in Fort Smith
and the flow through the lock and dam 2 miles up river, as of
7 pm yesterday, was 2710 cubic feet per second. Seems it picked
up a little on its way down. Sad thing is people in this area
have consistently voted against using it as a water supply and
have spent many millions of dollars getting it other places.
Why? Because its so polluted by the time it gets here.

CVick
Panacea II '81 C25 #2439 SRSK
Fort Smith, AR

Edited by - on

Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 17:21:08

Sorry I didn't mean to get off the original subject.
Panacea II docks in around 15 feet. In the channel
on the lake it is pretty much around 70-90 feet but
there are lots of plateaus mostly on the west side
of the channel, one of which I found on a midnight
sail 150 yards offshore. All heeled over and not going
anywhere. Thats why I'm keeping my swing keel!

CVick
Panacea II '81 C25 #2439 SRSK
Fort Smith, AR

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 20:08:58

My depth sounder goes off at 399 ft. Which means my depth sounder is almost never on.

Doug - #1913 Noeta

Edited by - on

jsummerfield
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 20:30:00

My new fish finder indicates about five-foot at the dock, seven to nine foot in most of the channel with exceptions that drop to about 36-foot and then into Galveston Bay. Most of Galveston Bay is just over 10-foot with mud flats extending from the side and a few holes over 100-foot at colapsed salt-domes, etc.

John
C25 3973 FK/SR
"Texas Tango"

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2003 : 23:24:42

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I live on the Arkansas (and thats not AR-kansas)
Why? Because its so polluted by the time it gets here.
CVick
Panacea II '81 C25 #2439 SRSK
Fort Smith, AR
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
The arKANSAS river is very polluted here as well. We have a river festival every summer and two years ago we had to cancel all of the water events due to water quality. Modern agriculture is hard on water sheds. As for the "it fell here theory"... that is a little socio-centric, the state boundries were put there by people, the river is one contiguous geological feature.
It sounds like several people count on our shoal draft to survive. The irony is that we need so much water to swing our keels down.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - fhopper@mac.com on 09/30/2003 23:25:22

Edited by - on

Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2003 : 12:50:22

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I live on the Arkansas (and thats not AR-kansas)
Why? Because its so polluted by the time it gets here.
CVick
Panacea II '81 C25 #2439 SRSK
Fort Smith, AR
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
The arKANSAS river is very polluted here as well. We have a river festival every summer and two years ago we had to cancel all of the water events due to water quality. Modern agriculture is hard on water sheds. As for the "it fell here theory"... that is a little socio-centric, the state boundries were put there by people, the river is one contiguous geological feature.
It sounds like several people count on our shoal draft to survive. The irony is that we need so much water to swing our keels down.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - fhopper@mac.com on 09/30/2003 23:25:22
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Whoa! Quote foul there Frank!
Actually I don't live next to the ARKansas river because its polluted, I live here cause I was born here 46 years ago and its a very beautiful part of the country which fortunately most of the rest of the world doesn't know about.
And I even have friends that are Jayhawkers, though I don't like to mention it in mixed company.

CVick
PanaceaII '81 C25 #2439 SRSK
Fort Smith, AR

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2003 : 14:05:08

Sorry, it was an unintended consequence of editing for space.<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

jsummerfield
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2003 : 21:21:45

The Corps of Engineers built several dams to collect the Kansas and Oklahoma silt Between Wichita, KS and Fort Smith, AR. These days the river should look much better in Ft. Smith than it did 40-years ago. However, one day the Kaw and Keystone resourvors will become mud flats completely filled over and the old floods and raging runoff will move downstream from Tulsa. Don't sell your boat this week to beat the rush as there should be a few more decades as-is.

John
C25 3973 FK/SR
"Texas Tango"

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