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frich
Captain

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USA
418 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/29/2003 : 16:10:00

Probably been talked about before, but with my mast down I want to inspect my rigging (20yrs old this year) I know the obvious meat hooks and rust, but is there any area above all others that has a history of failure.

Thanks to all who reply

Frank R
84 C25 Sk

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2003 : 19:46:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by frich
 Probably been talked about before, but with my mast down I want to inspect my rigging (20yrs old this year) I know the obvious meat hooks and rust, but is there any area above all others that has a history of failure.

Thanks to all who reply

Frank R
84 C25 Sk
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I am learning like you. My boat is in the driveway and I just noticed a trough in my mast from some abraision. It is a foot below the masthead 3 inches long, horizontal, and nearly through the aluminum. As if you laid your first finger accross the mast, that size. I am wondering what if anything I need to do about it.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2003 : 20:53:26

Frank & Martha: Spooky! Any pictures of that?

Frank R: From what I've heard, the most likely failure point is inside the lower swage fittings, just above the turnbuckles, where the cable goes into the sleeve. Salt and/or polution builds up in there, blocking the oxygen that protects stainless, and promoting "crevice corrosion" that causes the cable to fail inside there with no outward warning. X-ray examination can check for this, but it's prohibitive for us common folk. I'm replacing my apparently original standing rigging this winter, even though the only adverse evidence is some "untwisting" at the top of the forestay, probably from a halyard wrap with the roller furler before I bought the boat. I feel like 18 years in a saltwater environment is enough.

If you actually have meathooks, you're way past me. You've got a "Timberrrrrr" waiting to happen.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/29/2003 21:02:25

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2003 : 23:03:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Frank & Martha: Spooky! Any pictures of that?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

http://homepage.mac.com/fhopper/PhotoAlbum31.html

do I need a new mast?

Edited by - on

cch
Navigator

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202 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2003 : 23:24:13

Frank,

Really enjoyed the photos. How do you find time for all those projects?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 07:11:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cch
 Frank,

Really enjoyed the photos. How do you find time for all those projects?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I appologize that they were so poor, Dave asked if I had any pictures so I went outside and took them in the dark. Auto focus has a hard time in the dark! Why so many projects:

10. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.
9. I've seen every Raymond four times
8. A boat is a system, all systems must be optimized (prime directive)
7. My wife is a Special Ed teacher and is too busy with paperwork to talk to me
6. 2.9% interest on my master Card
5. The guy accross the street is building a race car in his garage (peer pressure)
4. Any excuse to buy new tools
3. I love the smell of fiberglass dust
2. We have a chick UPS driverI
1. I read this forum

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 08:13:49

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 09:12:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">do I need a new mast?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank,

Years ago, I towed my C-22 under an electric line with the mast up and it burned a couple of holes in the mast about the size of a 50 cent piece. A skilled heliarc welder filled the holes and smoothed the finish of the mast, and it seemed to be just fine.

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 09:14:42

Look at all the swages just at the point of entry of the wire. A magnifying glass and good light helps, you are looking for little cracks that are beginning, in my experience that is where they most likely start. Also if you know someone in the metal business you can get a wipe-on dye to show cracks that are otherwise invisible. This does not mean you are home free if you dont see any, the only sure way to know, as shown above, is by x-ray or magnaflux, but at least you have SOME knowledge of condition. Some people replace regularly but it must be said I have known sailors go for twenty years original rig and no problem, but .....you never know, Murphy, etc Ron srsk Orion in SW FL

Edited by - on

svmoxie
Past Commodore

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USA
331 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 09:58:21

Frank,

I would go with Steve's advice and see about having a skilled welder try to clean it up. The better question is what caused it? I can't see how a furler could cause that but something did... To answer your question I would say yes...fix it or replace it.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2003 : 11:33:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by svmoxie
 Frank,

I would go with Steve's advice and see about having a skilled welder try to clean it up. The better question is what caused it? I can't see how a furler could cause that but something did... To answer your question I would say yes...fix it or replace it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have to believe it was there when I bought the boat, it is hard to believe I missed it, I want to believe we didn't do it, believe me I hate this. I guess it is a good chance to go tall rig.

I will have my welder friend accross the street look at it. I almost wonder about riveting some SS over it.

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2003 : 12:48:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Years ago, I towed my C-22 under an electric line with the mast up and it burned a couple of holes in the mast about the size of a 50 cent piece.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I remember that

It was like in 1980 you were on a trip with other boats from Brookville.

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2003 : 10:58:02

I replaced the headstay four seasons ago when I updated the furler. The original furler had caused some twisting of the wire.

For all the scare stories, SS standing rigging lasts an awfully long time (in most climates). Obviously, salt water sailors need to be more attentive than the freshies. However, a failed swage fitting does not always (or even often) result in a mast failure. Most frequently, you hear a "ping" followed by a wandering shroud, and you turn into the wind and hope everything else will hold. It usually does. I agree with Dave Bristle that 15-18 years is a good time to replace standing rigging. On the other hand, I've seen 1970 Pearsons happily sailing with their original rigging.

One good thing Frank Butler did (bless him!) is specify twin lower shrouds for the C25. They provide lots of extra for-and-aft security. Most sailboats in our class (and many of thirty feet and more) have but a single lower shroud. And as for those Hunters--I still can't figure out how the mast stays up, even with brand new stays and shrouds...

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2003 : 14:23:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by deastburn
 ...And as for those Hunters--I still can't figure out how the mast stays up, even with brand new stays and shrouds...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
They don't always! I helped a guy untangle and unrig his broken and fallen mast on an H-240. The extrusion was like a Coors can, and of course the backstay that might've kept the thing up didn't exist. He was backing out of his slip and caught a shroud on a piling. POP - CRUNCH - CLUNK. I might have expected a broken spreader, but not that!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/05/2003 14:25:26

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2003 : 14:38:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> The extrusion was like a Coors can, and of course the backstay that might've kept the thing up didn't exist. He was backing out of his slip and caught a shroud on a piling. POP - CRUNCH - CLUNK. I might have expected a broken spreader, but not that!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
My local dealer has a 260 boom that is 11' long. It has all internals. I have been toying with the idea of buying it.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2003 : 14:56:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 [quote]...boom that is 11' long.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Bye...bye...backstay.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2003 : 15:03:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Antares
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 [quote]...boom that is 11' long.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Bye...bye...backstay.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Our boom is 11' long

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2003 : 15:06:43

Come on, Frank. I know that's what we tell all the girls, but we're amongst friends here.

P.s. I don't know why I was thinking 9', but mainly I've just had that stupid song in my head all day. Just kinda slipped out while I was multi-tasking.

Edited by - Sea Trac on 11/05/2003 15:10:03

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