Association Forum - Base of Mast

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Base of Mast

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

JoergK
Navigator

Member Avatar

USA
140 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/17/2003 : 13:54:54

I never lowered the mast but need to do so now. Reading up on this topic in the forum I see that most procedures involve tilting the mast towards either the bow or stern. Which method is better (I have a furler)? Also, would this not require that the base of the mast is rounded (so that the mast can "pivot")?

Joerg
2002C250 WK "BerLyn"

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2003 : 14:19:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JoergKthe bow or stern. Which method is better (I have a furler)? Also, would this not require that the base of the mast is rounded (so that the mast can "pivot")?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Your mast step has a slotted bolt hole that allows a loosened (NOT REMOVED!) mast bolt to rise up as the mast is lowered. Yes a rounded base would have been nice. Most people lower to the stern. With a furler it is about the only way you can do it. It is no big deal. Get some friends, (some with some experience would be nice) and just do it. Watch for things hanging up but that usually only happens when raising.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2003 : 15:31:55

As Frank said, just do it. The best teacher in this lesson is experience. I'm not saying don't ignore any of the many threads written about it here. Just that you really don't know how easy, difficult it is till you do it yourself. My take on it is that it is not that hard to do, just a bit of a pain.
I have only lowered mine towards the back, but I have seen it done forward too. as you said each is about the same. It can be done single handed with preperation, but, it is easier with one or three helpers. More than thay and people are in the way. That is unless the extra ones are passing out beer or soda.

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 14:22:52

A 28' mast (standard rig) is a dangerous hunk of aluminum to lose control of, so be very systematic.

I strongly urge you to invest a couple hours in building a rig similar to the one in Tech Tips(http://www.catalina25-250.org/tech/tech25/bearsad1.html). After five seasons of paying others to deal with the mast, I finally made this rig this summer and I now can raise and lower the mast single-handed. SAFELY.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 16:01:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by deastburn
 A 28' mast (standard rig) is a dangerous hunk of aluminum to lose control of, so be very systematic.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Very true.
However; I have made mention of the differences between lake sailors and coastal sailors on this forum before. I am in awe of the skills needed to sail in blue water, (or the Great Lakes for that matter). It seems though, that this whole mast thing has way too many people freaked out. We inland lake sailors do this several times a year, at our lake we have no fancy marinas with scrub boys and mast men. We do everything ourselves. If it takes several people to do something you get several people to help. They are glad to do it because they know you will help them when they need it. There may be gin poles at our club but I have never seen one used. If I were trailering around to strange sites I would want to have the equipment to keep me independent and safe, (i.e. a gin pole system). But at my own slip it would be way too much trouble to do anything other than ask for help and just do it. There is a mystique to many things, I can imagine someone being freaked out by putting a through hull in themselves, (Yikes, a hole in my boat!) but dropping a mast on a Catalina 25 or 250 should not intimidate anyone. I usually raise and lower the "stick" in my slip, lots of people do it in the parking lot, lots of people do it at the hoist. In my driveway I obviously do it on the trailer. The best advise I can give someone about raising and lowering their mast is, if you have to ask then you need to do it six times the next time you are at your boat. You ought to have five people, you need three people, and can get by with two strong people. You will see shrouds get hung up, maybe even a "T-bolt" bent, and you will figure out who needs to be where when. After six times you will know to have your act together before you put your mast up or down but you will never worry about being able to do it.
I am sorry if this seems insensitive or something, but I think it needs to be said. One of the things that draw me to this site is a love of the ingenuity that sailing requires; I hope that I am not alone in that. Sometimes I suspect we overcomplicate things; I hope I am not alone in that.
When I read a post, I trust that the person believes in what they are saying and are saying it because they care enough to take the time to post it.
I believe this about masts and care enough to post it.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 11/19/2003 17:16:43

MattL
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 18:21:10

Frank,
You hit the nail on the head. With practice and determination you can do anything. My dad and I use to get the old santana, 21 so it was easy, from trailer to sailing with-in a half an hour. The cat takes a little longer. I have had it all set and ready to back in, by myself in less than an hour. Then again sometimes it takes me about 4 depending on who is there to talk to.
speaking of ingenuity, I teach an 8th grade industrial technology class. Today we are learning how to use a ruler. Yes the average 13 year old doesn't know how to use one. I gave a couple of kids a class demo to do. They were given a 1X6 and about a 5 inch broken stick. I told them to use that and a pencile and find the exact center of the board. A few of them were able to do it and the others were amazed when we finally got through it. I guess what I am tring to say is that anything can be done if you have a mind set to get the job done.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

Members Avatar

921 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2003 : 10:12:47

Is there a compression sleeve inside the mast for the tabernacle bolt?
I don't see one on the parts sheet. Does it need one?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2003 : 12:13:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Happy D
 Is there a compression sleeve inside the mast for the tabernacle bolt?
I don't see one on the parts sheet. Does it need one?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
no
no

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2003 : 16:13:04

The mast base itself should take any comression load along the axis of the bolt.

There shouldn't be much anyway as that particular bolt is just a hinge pin and doesn't need to be really tight.. however, it should have a locking nut or cotter pin to make sure it doesn't come adrift.

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2003 : 09:50:37

I have been using the mast raising system mentioned by dave, and have had no trouble raising and lowering singlehanded. Be sure all your shrouds are in order. Sometimes the turn buckles will lay over in the wrong direction and will begin to bind as the mast travels the last ten feet. If the mast is heading aft the top and aft lower turnbuckles will need to be laid aft as their tension is eased. Otherwise if they lay forward as the tension goes off there will not be enough slack for the last few feet of travel and the stay will kink making it useless.

As I read this I realize my words begin to resemble the assembly instructions for a bicycle on christmas eve. "insert tab b into flange r while holding bolt c and singing dixie...."

I guess the trick in lowering or raising your mast is to be sure everything is in order and you are ready to make the move without having to stop or reverse direction. When raising, the back stay, being the longest has a tendency to become hooked on any number of things in the cockpit. Just be sure it is looped loosly where it won't hook on your motor or swim ladder.

good luck. BTW with your mast down you can find out whether the PO placed a coin under the mast. An old sailing tradition was to place a coin under the mast for good luck. I don't know if this is the case with all catalina mast steps but my 77 has a little depression in the step which will hold a quarter. Since the hollow mast won't hold the coin in place just use the handyman's friend "duck tape"

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/30/2003 : 11:17:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John V.
 Be sure all your shrouds are in order. Sometimes the turn buckles will lay over in the wrong direction and will begin to bind as the mast travels the last ten feet. If the mast is heading aft the top and aft lower turnbuckles will need to be laid aft as their tension is eased. Otherwise if they lay forward as the tension goes off there will not be enough slack for the last few feet of travel and the stay will kink making it useless<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The last time I raised my mast I used a tip from Steve Milby on preventing shroud kinking and it worked like a charm. His tip was to use light rubberbands to tie off the turnbuckles/shrouds to the lifelines to keep them at the correct orientation. As the mast goes up the correctly aligned shrouds tighten, breaking the rubberbands.

This technique works well for mast raising when you don't have that extra person to scurry over the deck untangling the shrouds.

Edited by - dlucier on 11/30/2003 11:18:56

GeorgeB
1st Mate

Members Avatar

90 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2003 : 14:26:15

Guys,

I agree with Frank, this is something that doesn't have a lot of mystique about it. On the other hand overconfidence can lead to unexpected consequences. After 22 years of raising and dropping the mast, The last time I dropped the mast toward the stern, I used a strong son in law to support the mast at the aft end of the cockpit. He was unaware of the need to keep the base of the mast from pressing down on the front edge of the pop top. As he allowed the mast to rest a large potion of its weight there, The laws of gravity and mechanical advantage combined to drive the mast fitting for the vang through the pop top.

Some sort of rigid mast support at the aft end of the cockpit is a good idea

Edited by - on

Steve Shetter
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2003 : 18:15:17

As a novice myself, I just lucked out when I launched this Spring. I borrowed 2 friends and my son and "just did it" as suggested. The way that we did it was to tie the main and headsail lines together (with a smaller line that reached the deck) and I placed a person on each side of the boat. I manned the fore-stay and my son manned the base of the mast. As we released the port shrouds, I had the person on that side of the boat put pressure on that line and the person on the starboard side release pressure. We reversed the process on the starboard side but were more careful with the reduced pressure on the port side. (This process allowed us to remove the shroud pins without releasing the tension on anything except the fore-stay. When we lowered the mast to the stern, the folks on the port and starboard lines moved forward and maintained a steady and increasing pressure as the mast was lowered, until my son, who was stationed on the cabin (he moved back as possible caught and finished the lowering of the mast to the stern rail. I say caught, but in reality, it was more of a guiding action than a catch. To step the mast, we reversed the order of the moves and everything went very smoothly. We practiced in the driveway 3 times (the last time we stepped the mast in 7 minutes) and then went to the lake. The only difference was that, at the lake, we stepped the mast while we were on a steep ramp. I thought that since NONE of us had ever done this, it made more sense to do it on the trailer. Raising the mast against the increased angle of the ramp (spelled gravity) was an interesting difference, but not so much that we would do it differently next time.

Good luck and let us know how it went.

Edited by - on

Bob Vick
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2003 : 22:10:01

As a mere C-22 sailor, I am sure there are things about the C-25 that I am unaware of.

A few time equipment savers I have learned from the 22 are,

Small bungee cords hooked to the turnbuckles & up to the lifelines save T-bolts.

Like the rubber band trick, cheep masking tape will break away from rolled cables when mast raising also. (I drape mine – hard headed I guess)

I copied this Mast up & forward trailer built pole from this C-22.
http://cox-internet.com/lorendi/boat.jpg
I use my jib halyard & a mast mounted winch tied to the trailer riser to have full one-man control on our 22. This slightly different from Loren’s trailer mounted winch pictured on the above link.

I just use a floatation device to save the cabin top & the mast up to catch the mast aft.

Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
C 22 #13059 "Over Keel"

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2003 : 13:03:13

Bob, I looked at your pictures and there are several that show your mast raising gear very well. You appear to have a well found yacht!

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.