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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Tiller Pilot ordered today

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/18/2003 : 22:53:53

I ordered a Simrad TP20 from SailNet today, on sale for $49.00 off the regular price, and I expect to receive it in 5 or 6 days. Any advice about installation pitfalls to avoid will be appreciated. I ordered the 6" pushrod extension and the deck plug to go with it, and I plan to interface it with my also-new Garmin 168 GPS. The plan is to mount it on the port side of the cockpit, so I can get to the outboard motor without having to dismount the tiller pilot every time. How far forward from the pivot axis of the rudder post should I mount it?

This completes the planned major additions to the boat for this year. Next spring at the April Boat Show, I will pick up a new outboard (Honda 8 high thrust with electric start, unless Yamaha comes out with a standard recoil starter on their 9.9HT), and sometime over the winter I will install a stereo and speakers. In 2005 I will order a new full-batten main, and maybe a new 135% genoa if the old one tears again (it has a couple of patches from where the PO ripped it on something). I also want to upgrade the primary wenches to Self-tailers, but not sure when that will be affordable. I have not had any overtime for almost a year, and none in sight for at least another year or two with the floundering economy. I used to buy boat toys and upgrades with overtime pay and that source of income enhancement has dried up for the forseeable future.

And of course, sooner or later I will have to get a trailer for the new boat, but I may keep the trailer from #1205 if I can sell that boat by itself (unlikely, but I'll try).

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25WK/TR Mk. IV #5857 "Quiet Time"
Folsom Lake, CA

"You might get there faster in a powerboat, but in a sailboat, you're already there"

Edited by - lcharlot on 11/18/2003 22:58:21

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 12:34:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">How far forward from the pivot axis of the rudder post should I mount it?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think my TP 10 (aka Navico T100) designates 18". The installation instructions which come with your unit will have the correct measurement. However, Simrad's website indicates "some tolerance on the distance from tiller stock is permissible, but the Tillerpilot may require a Gain adjustment to compensate". Their website isn't the best, but you can go to http://www.simrad.com/ and do a Search for "tillerpilot" for further information. Also, my tillerpilot came with a default setting of starboard-side installation, but the instructions were pretty easy to switch it to port.

Hope this helps.

Edited by - on

roberoo
Navigator

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USA
182 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 12:56:26

I also bought the TP20 (Recieved a remote also), I didn't install it yet but I have played the install out in my mind. If you can, you may want to send the Deck Plug back. Mine had one included. I also bought the extension. My thought was to get two pieces of 1x2 oak and make a solid block and then seal this well and glue it to the underside of the deck by going through my locker just forward of the Gas Can Compartment. That way the brass mounting tube for the tp20 can be snuggly set in this and epoxied together so it will be stable. This may be overkill but I am open for suggestions. I am going to wire it direct to the battery with a breaker in betwee and will hook up my GPS Magellan 350m and the Depth/Temp Gauge to thsi. I have played with it using a battery and got the GPS to work with it and changed ove rto Port settings real easy.

All in all it seems as if it will install easy. I am a computer/electronics guy and whenever I have to drill/sand or in general do carpentry I get worried. So I will listen for how it went for you.

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 18:07:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My thought was to get two pieces of 1x2 oak and make a solid block and then seal this well and glue it to the underside of the deck by going through my locker just forward of the Gas Can Compartment<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Bob:

By "deck", do you mean the top of the coaming? When I drilled mine, I was also prepared to add some kind of backing to make it more secure. But I found it to be a lot thicker there and more than adequate to support the brass tube. The only downside to this spot is that the tillerpilot is not perfectly horizonal, but only slightly so and the unit seems to work fine there. The picture shows the brass tube just aft of the deck plug.

Edited by - on

roberoo
Navigator

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USA
182 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2003 : 15:45:38

Yes I meant the Coaming (Have to learn and remember the terminology). I am a Big Guy (Sometimes Mistaken for a Manatee in the water...Thats a story for another time

) and i was not looking forward to crawling underneath the locker to get the wood placed correctly etc. So I am very happy to learn about the coaming thickness. What did you use to seal the brass tube in place?

Thanks,

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2003 : 23:19:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What did you use to seal the brass tube in place?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Epoxy.

Edited by - on

allencl
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2003 : 11:12:00

I also found the fiberglass at the aft end of the coaming to be very thick- at least one inch. My Simrad TP10 is mounted similarly to Richard's. One difference: my replacement rudder came from Catalina and was significantly "taller" than the one that it replaced. That is to say, the rudder post where the tiller attaches sits quite a bit higher than the previous one. So my autopilot is essentially dead on level when using the brass cup mount on the aft end of the coaming. I played around for quite a while with the measurements and by experimenting found a place for the mounting cup that met the criteria listed in the installation manual quite nicely. I drilled a hole of the required diameter through the coaming (surprisingly thick!) then put some masking tape on the underside of the whole to act as a dam for the epoxy- dropped in the brass cup, let it cure, then caulked around the edges of the cup.

Richard, to clarify your photograph in case anybody is confused: the bar that is attached to the tiller is just for locking the helm, correct? Furthermore, the bar does not mount on the coaming where your autopilot does. The autopilot mounts in the brass cup seen at the aft end of the coaming, just behind the deck plug as you mention, just inboard of the port cleat. It appears from your photograph that your autopilot slopes downward a bit toward the tiller? Of course there is a little bit of leeway on how far one sinks the pin into the top of the tiller, but that only buys you half an inch or so either way.

When making installation measurements, don't forget that the autopilot doesn't sit flush with the top edge of the brass cup- the hole in the push rod that engages the tiller pin sits a bit higher than the brass cup if everything is mounted on the level. All that said, I think a slight deviation from level will still work just fine as Richard indicates

I'll try to send some pictures a little later today if that would be helpful Larry...

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2003 : 12:27:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Richard, to clarify your photograph in case anybody is confused: the bar that is attached to the tiller is just for locking the helm, correct? Furthermore, the bar does not mount on the coaming where your autopilot does. The autopilot mounts in the brass cup seen at the aft end of the coaming, just behind the deck plug as you mention, just inboard of the port cleat.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

All true.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">the rudder post where the tiller attaches sits quite a bit higher than the previous one. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Interesting. Are the dimensions of the rudder greater such that it is taller or are the pintles on the rudder attached at a different place? Is the new rudder the "balanced" one?

Edited by - RichardG on 11/21/2003 12:29:12

allencl
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 12/01/2003 : 11:15:47

Richard,

Sorry took so long to reply. So it appears that my new rudder, which is a balanced rudder, is two inches taller than my old balanced rudder. The shape of the rudders is the same except for an extra two inches at the top- I'm wondering if newer C25s did away with the transom cutout that my 1987 version has?

Larry have you received the new autopilot and have you started installing?

Here is a picture of my autopilot and a stern shot to show the relationship between the transom cutout and the tiller position. In the first picture, the tiller is not in contact with the jerry cans- in its full down position it just clears the cans...

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2003 : 00:55:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

Larry have you received the new autopilot and have you started installing?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, I received it a few days ago and will probably install it this coming weekend. I was down at the boat Saturday to look things over and "plan out" the installation process. I still haven't figured out the best place to put the 4-pin connector for the Remote unti they included. I think I will mount it in the head, so I can use the remote on the foredeck, perhaps while anchoring or working with the headsail or whiskerpole. The 6-pin deck plug for the tillerpilot itself, I will mount in the coaming box. The tiller pilot unit comes with just enough cable to reach the deck plug in that location, and it's safe there from being accidently kicked or having something heavy dropped on it.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2003 : 08:32:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lcharlot
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I still haven't figured out the best place to put the 4-pin connector for the Remote unti they included. I think I will mount it in the head, so I can use the remote on the foredeck, perhaps while anchoring or working with the headsail or whiskerpole.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I mounted my autopilot remote on the inside bulkhead next to my compass and knotmeter(starboard side). This is a good location because it is somewhat central so the remote can be used up on the foredeck and the wiring is easy to install through the access panels in the aft berth.

I've used (read "played with") my remote only a couple of times and found it to be more of a conversation piece than a useful tool.

Edited by - on

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