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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Cruising Direct sails

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nate
Navigator

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240 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/24/2003 : 17:17:26

The Great Headsail Hunt continues...
As alot of you know from my recent posts, I'm looking for a new 155% genoa for my boat. Hoping to find the perfect sail that blends club racing performance with furling simplicity all without breaking the bank.
So, here's where we are currently: Gary Swenson at Ullman can make a laminate for around $1,200, Catalina Direct offers the same sail (from ullman's loft) for $1350. Air Force Sails quoted me $860 for a Pentex laminate and Cruising Direct came in at $721 for a new genoa made from the North Fabric "NorLam"....a performance cruising laminate. I'm still waiting to hear from UK Sails with a quote.
I've gotten some positive feedback on Air Force sails, and I think everyone with sails made by Ullman are pleased, including myself. Now I'm wondering about the Cruising Direct product. From what I can see, they are built by a North Sails loft with the difference being the boat owner provides the measurements instead of some hot-shot from North coming out with a tape measure. So here we go again...does anyone have feedback on Cruising Direct sails/service they can pass along? Guys, I promise that soon I will purchase a new sail and this seemingly never-ending search will be over. But for now, as always, I appreciate your help.

Nate Adams
C25 #5695 WK/SR/Trad
"Heeling Properties"

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 20:01:16

I've never known a sailmaker to come out and measure your boat. Any sailmaker ought to have the correct sail measurements for a Catalina. I would tell Cruising Direct that, if they don't know the measurements for a Catalina, you'll give your business to someone who does. What they are trying to do is to make you responsible if the sails they send you don't fit.

Edited by - on

nate
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240 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2003 : 20:10:42

Steve,
Cruising Direct did in fact have the specs at hand and were able to give me an instant quote for a C25. I asked the guy what the difference was between the CD sails (made by North) and a North sail of the same material. He didn't really elaborate so maybe they are the same sail with a different sticker on the finished product. Who knows.
BTW, I did hear back from UK today and he gave me a quote of $1450 for a Tape-drive genoa. I think that puts UK out of my budget. Still wondering how Air Force sails can make a Pentex laminate for $850.00?

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2003 : 11:13:02

Hey Nate,

The reason that a top rated sail loft wants to get current measurements is to avoid shipping the wrong sail. A skipper at my marina bought a new mainsail for his Catalina 30 this summer. He had purchased a new 135% genny from the same loft two summers ago, and had good luck.

The problem was that he thought that his C30 was a tall rig. It isn't. But, he ordered a tall rig mainsail because that is what he thought he needed. "I don't need to do those stinking measurements. They know the I,P,E,J measurements." Interestingly, the 135% for a tall rig fit (just) on his furler. The luff length for the tall 135% is nearly the same as the luff length for a standard 155%. BUT, you can see this coming, the mainsail for the tall rig was way too tall for his rig......Two Feet Too Tall. To use the sail, he would have had to take the dodger off and then he would have had the boom right at cabin top. Fortunately, the sail loft took back the tall rig mainsail and made a new standard rig sail for him. He's thinking of changing the name of his boat to "Eat Crow".

So, the actual measurements are often critical to getting the right size sail. I'd be nervous if a professional loft didn't ask for the measurements.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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nate
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2003 : 11:48:31

Bill,
I completely understand...I'd hate to buy something and get it out to the boat only to find the sail doesn't fit. Cruising Direct has a very detailed measurement worksheet that they ask you to complete before they start on any new sail. Regardless of who builds my new genoa, I plan to use the worksheet to get all the dimensions I need down on paper. Thanks for your input.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2003 : 13:09:30

I sent Gary at Ulman my old sail. It only cost about $5 to ship. No possibility for error. He sent the new sail back in the same box I used!

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2003 : 16:44:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bill Holcomb
 I'd be nervous if a professional loft didn't ask for the measurements.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Bill
I would be nervous if someone on this site did not now the proper measurements. You and all the other Oldtimers(

) have put a lot of effort into the front of this web site. The info is there. I can see someone buying a boat and not knowing which rig they had, but after reading the info on this site I cannot imagine it.

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2003 : 19:21:53

I sure agree that it "should" be easy to know what options a given boat comes with. But, in my example of the C30 owner; the PO that he bought the boat from told him that it was a tall rig. So, he never went any farther.

And, of course, there are several posts on this forum each year from new owners who don't know which rig they have. My sense of it is that there may be quite a few owners who don't even know there is such a thing as a tall rig - or what that even means.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2003 : 20:05:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I would be nervous if someone on this site did not now the proper measurements. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
In 1980, when I bought my first set of sails for my C-25 tall rig, North didn't have the dimensions, and they didn't know the difference between a Catalina 25 and a Capri 25. (They had not yet made a set of sails for a C-25.) I sent them a Catalina brochure for the C-25, they contacted Catalina and obtained the correct specs, and made me a great set of sails. They didn't expect me, the customer, to know the sail specs.

When I ordered my second set of sails, about 3 years ago, the sailmaker wanted me to measure my boat, but I had put the boat in storage for the winter. I checked the measurements specified on this website and compared them with measurements used by several different sailmakers, and they were all different. At that time, I wasn't involved with this forum, so I didn't have anyone to consult. The measurements for my genoa were wrong, and I had to have my local sailmaker re-cut it.

I'm not a sailmaker, and I shouldn't have to tell a sailmaker how to make my sails. Making sails is their business, and when the boat is a production, one-design class, with umpty-ump thousand copies on the water, they should be able to make my C-25 tall rig sails without insisting that I come up with the specifications. If I tell them that my boat is a C-25 tall rig, that's all they should need to know. If I tell them wrong, then it's my fault.

If I was a cardiologist, and if you came to me for an examination, I wouldn't expect you to diagnose your own condition.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2003 : 23:34:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I would be nervous if someone on this site did not now the proper measurements. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
In 1980, when I bought my first set of sails for my C-25 tall rig, North didn't have the dimensions, and they didn't know the difference between a Catalina 25 and a Capri 25. (They had not yet made a set of sails for a C-25.)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Now I am shocked! It sounds like North did not want your business. Was it a blue water loft with better things to do? I have never talked to a loft that did not have beaucoup boats in their data base. I never had to give dimensions for my Spirit 23 Kolius sails, Merit 25 Ulmer Kolius sails, or my Catalina 25 Ulman sails. I cannot imagine a less qualified person to measure a boat than an owner. I suppose ther are some one ofs out there and the like, that a loft could not know about but mainstream boats are not secrets!

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5909 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2003 : 09:29:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It sounds like North did not want your business. Was it a blue water loft with better things to do? I have never talked to a loft that did not have beaucoup boats in their data base. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Actually, North was offering terrific off-season discounts, to keep their employees working during the off-season. Even though there were 2500 C-25s on the water at the time, North had never yet made sails for one. Until then, everyone who bought a new C-25 bought their sails from Catalina. In 1980-81, Catalina sails were awful, and I wanted good sails, so I bought the boat without sails and ordered them from North.

North got it wrong at first, but they knew where to get the correct dimensions, and they didn't rely on me to provide them. (I couldn't have provided them in any event, because I didn't have the boat yet.) I don't fault North. They made everything turn out right, and ultimately sent me excellent sails. I fault other sailmakers who play coy with you, and don't accept the responsibility to provide the customer with sails that meet the class requirements. I'm no sailmaking expert, but I know as much about sails as the average sailor, and I got snagged. When I ordered the second set of sails, I started out by saying that I wanted a class-legal mainsail and 150% jib for a C-25 tall rig. That should have been all the dimensional information I needed to furnish.

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2003 : 09:55:58

Steve,

You're right. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the legal demensions from that kind of specification.

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