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Stoves and Refit Update...

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Billyboy
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/10/2003 : 11:27:05

Well Mates, I've tended to the kicker power, rigging, deck fittings, and I'm about to get the DC electrical squared away. This has not been a chore, but just fun that feeds the emotional investment.
Now, I'm looking at that two burner alcohol curtain smoker...got to go.
Yep, scoped out the new marine stoves...my gosh, the price. I can do better!
Now, who among you will admit to researching and then end up using an
inexpensive propane camp stove? I've a friend on a CAT 30' who uses
a two burner Walmart special (under 30 bucks). The propane bottle is only on the stove during the feeding frenzy, then it's relegated to the fantail. I have a hard time to believe that the technology and quality between that which is expensive, and that which is not, is significant.
The real test for safety is how one uses it. Ok, give me your comments, squarly between me eyes!

billyboy, C-25 '85 SK,SR

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2003 : 11:37:23

The single burner Origo alchohol is the preferred stove at my club, if you need more cooking space then its out to the Magna on the stern rail.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2003 : 13:08:28

I'm with you, Billyboy. I chucked the curtain burner and replaced it with a $15 one-burner, butane camp stove. Haven't needed more than that yet, but will upgrade with a Magna eventually.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2003 : 13:28:13

billyboy,

I also upgraded from the original equipment pressurized alcohol stove by buying one of the Wal-Mart 2-burner propane tailgate camping stoves.

At the same time, I also bought two of the single burner backpacking propane stoves, a propane pressure regulator, about 15' of propane hose, and a couple handfulls of misc. threaded brass adapter fittings. Canibalizing the cheap propane stoves for parts, I converted the pressurized alcohol stove to propane, while retaining the original location, appearance, and gimbal mounts. If you can figure out how, and what size, to enlarge the small stove fuel jets, you don't need the 2-burner stove parts to do this. I use the 16oz. disposable canisters, and store the spares in the cockpit. I located the tank in use in the stbd. cockpit locker, and added a low point vent into the cockpit footwell.

I used the "new" stove twice daily on a month long cruise. It cooked fast, and worked flawlessly.

-- Leon Sisson

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2003 : 13:33:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Leon Sisson
At the same time, I also bought two of the single burner backpacking propane stoves, a propane pressure regulator, about 15' of propane hose, and a couple handfulls of misc. threaded brass adapter fittings. Canibalizing the cheap propane stoves for parts, I converted the pressurized alcohol stove to propane, while retaining the original location, appearance, and gimbal mounts.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ditto - easy to convert, easy and efficient to use

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John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2003 : 14:02:03

Thinking about converting the stove to propane also. I have a Coleman propane camp stove I've been thinking about taking the guts out of and putting in the original Princess stove body, but the Coleman says for outdoor use only. Does anyone know what the difference is between a propane stove that's safe for indoor use and one that is strictly outdoor use only?

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2003 : 15:31:42

John,<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Does anyone know what the difference is between a propane stove that's safe for indoor use and one that is strictly outdoor use only?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I don't know, but I'd guess the differences would include max. fuel pressure, and warnings about ventilation. I regulated my propane down to low pressure before routing it into the interior of the hull.

-- Leon Sisson

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2003 : 19:38:52

...Does anyone know what the difference is between a propane stove that's safe for indoor use and one that is strictly outdoor use only?...

Indoor rated models typically have Oxygen sensors that automatically shut the stove down if the O2 level drops below a safe level. Why? A propane flame in a low Oxygen atmosphere will produce Carbon Monoxide... (real bad stuff for humans)

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2003 : 22:11:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 ...A propane flame in a low Oxygen atmosphere will produce Carbon Monoxide... (real bad stuff for humans)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It produces CO in normal oxygen, too. In a closed room, even a natural gas stove can kill you. The good news is, it's painless.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2003 : 00:11:09

"It produces CO in normal oxygen"

I respectfully differ on that Dave... not to be picky, but I think this is a very important topic for all of us.

From the MSDS Sheets on propane. (echoed in lots of other sources)
------------ begin snip
"Hazardous Combustion Products: In typical use in properly adjusted and maintained gas appliances-None. If propane combustion is incomplete, poisonous carbon monoxide (CO) may be produced. Defective, improperly installed, adjusted maintained or improperly vented appliances may produce carbon monoxide or irritating aldehydes
------------ end snip

Translation: Propane in 'normal' oxygen concentrations undergoes "complete combustion" and produces practically no CO. Alcohol, for example, is another fuel that under normal conditions produces almost no CO. Ditto natural gas. That's why these substances are 'suitable' for modestly vented indoor combustion.

However,if Propane is combusted without an adequate supply of oxygen, it will start producing CO... hence, the oxygen sensors on unvented propane appliances designed and certified for 'indoor' use.

At the other extreme, burning charcoal produces LOTS of CO (carbon monoxide), even with plenty of oxygen available, and should never ever be used in an enclosed area. I mean NEVER! There are plenty of horror stories about this to scare the pants off anyone.

CO is thousands of times more toxic than CO2 because it has a tremendous affinity to the hemoglobin on your blood cells and won't easily let go. Even in 'low' concentrations, CO will begin to accumulate in your bloodstream. You suffocate from the inside out.

Symptoms of CO poisioning include headache and fatigue, followed by disorientation, loss of muscle control and nausea. If you suddenly experience these symptoms and are in any sort of enclosed area, get out into fresh air immediately.

IMHO Follows... personally, I would NEVER run a propane heater in an enclosed area that wasn't certified for such use (i.e. doesn't have an Oxygen sensor).

First, because the CO danger is high, and secondly, the risk of asphyxiation from Oxygen depletion is also very real. Also I would never run a portable propane heater while I was asleep... oxygen sensor or not.

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2003 : 00:43:54

I use a Magma outside and a butane Burton single burner inside. Have to admit that I rarely do anything inside the boat. Usually cook outside. Here's something to ponder though: At home I have a big gas range that runs off of propane. There have been times when I've had 4-6 burners and the oven all blasting for hours. True, my kitchen has a lot more air to burn than my boat, but the burn on the range is also much bigger. I think my Burton's single burner is rated at about 7000 BTU, while each of the 6 burners on the range crank twice as much. Add the oven and I suspect I've been ruuning 100-150 BTUs worth of fire in the kitchen. Yes, I've heated the house with the thing during power outages.There's no O2 sensors. Just fire. If I'm burning a lot, I crack open a window.
We recently had a wide spread power outage up here. I'm a fire claims adjuster, and whent he power goes out we wait- There will be the houses burned down by candles, and there will be the death and fire caused by some rocket scientist using a charcoal BBQ inside for heat or cooking.
Bottom line- use your common sense! Don't fall asleep with anything burning, ventilate the cabin, and be mindful of heavier than air fumes.

Edited by - Doug on 12/11/2003 00:45:48

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2003 : 08:14:19

I dismantled the curtain burner on "Brandy" and use just one coleman single burner with the 16oz cannister, I have a second one in reserve which we never have used. Last fall we used the same stove to heat the inside of Brandy, in the evening and again in the early morning. Leaving a hatch cover cracked open or the pop top slid partially open took care of concerns over useing propane in that enviroment. Just my two cents worth once again. "Bear"

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