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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

bilge drainage

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Molly Jo Fuller
Deckhand

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USA
2 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/21/2003 : 19:13:28

I remember reading once that the dinette model of the 25 presented a problem with all of the bilge water not reaching the point where all could be eliminated. I thought it was Bill Holcomb that addressed that problem.....Bill, what do I do? "Molly's Theme" # 4757. Thanks

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2003 : 20:46:20

Molly,

Some sailors have added "limber" holes to various compartments where water collected so they would drain into the bilge. From there, the bilge pump could do its work and pump the water overboard.

Are you having problems with water getting into your boat?

Edited by - on

Molly Jo Fuller
Deckhand

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USA
2 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2003 : 23:16:20

dlucier....no, I have no water problems, (there is never any water in the bilge under the forward dinette compartment)sometimes there is in the port side cockpit compartment if there is a driving rain,((this never shows up in the lower part of the bilge)): I sponge the water out from around the bilge hose. I bought the boat in Michigan, and there is an odor that I cannot get rid of ( it came with the boat).I have cleaned top to bottom with a Clorox solution many times, used special cleaners for the head, but no matter what, if the boat is closed up for a while, there is a musty/funky type odor that hits when you open the companionway. This is not a recent problem; I have battled this for quite some time. Could this be some kind of mold residue collected in these pockets that Bill Holcomb talked about? I can smell this more around the galley in the cupboard drawers, and also quite strongly when I open up the port compartment in the cockpit where the hose to the bilge runs. I have also cleaned this area plus the galley completely. When I got the boat, we took out the water tank, flushed and cleaned it with Clorox water, replaced all water lines, etc. I even quit using the sink, the icebox, etc. as a process of elimination, but the odor remains. My last resort is to install a solar fan/vent, but that doesn't solve the problem as to why there is the odor. Any help here, Don, I would appreciate. "Molly's Theme" #4757.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2003 : 23:56:35

Is there any chance of a dead rodent?

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 00:07:26

Molly,

Odors that came with the boat can be hard to track down, since you weren't there when whatever caused them happened, and it's unlikely that the seller made a point of explaining how it all started. ("You found a small fish skeleton in the bilges? I have no idea how that could have gotten there. Resident rodents? No, I don't seem to remember any... Insect chewed remains of a unopened milk carton under the quarterberth? Doesn't ring a bell.")

If you've gone over all obvious surfaces with bleach, it's time to turn you attention to the not so obvious areas. You might indeed be on the right track by wondering about isolated areas in the bilge. Particularly in the swing keel dinette version, there are some large inaccessable areas down low where dampness and sources of odors would tend to collect.

As described by Don, several of us have drilled 1/4" to 1/2" holes connecting the various low points and bilge compartments together for better drainage and air circulation. Also, some of us have added inspection ports or cut away small sections of liner to hull tabbing to improve access. In my experience, the most inaccessable sections are under the main cabin sole (the central traffic corridor), the galley footwell, and the dinette footwell. There's also a small inaccessable space under the head compartment.

Another ugly possibility is the narrow and thoroughly inaccessable gap between the sides of the hull liner and the topsides of the hull (inside the "interior walls" of the boat). All of these hidden areas are unfinished raw fiberglass, which provides an excellent foundation for mold, mildew, etc. You might also try removing the cushions, and see if the odor follows them.

You might want to track down a copy of Peggie Hall's recent book, [url="http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.tpl?fno=400&group=327"]"Get Rid of Boat Odors"[/url]. She really knows this topic well.

<-- that was supposed to be a picture of the book. Don't know if you'll be able to see it. (Hence the edit.)

Good luck! I wish you the sweet smell of success!

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - Leon Sisson on 12/22/2003 00:12:49

Earl Landers
Navigator

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USA
157 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 00:33:28

Molly,
Here is one source of odors that I found on my boat when I got to poking around. This is the underside of the original countertop. Any water that gets under the top is trapped by the fiberglass shelf that the top rests upon. I hope this isn't your problem.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 00:34:37

Ah, yes...boat odors!

Do you have a marine head? If you do, the hoses leading to the holding tank can become permeated with a rather unpleasant odor.

Check out this SailNet article, titled "[url="http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm?articleid=barron0015"]Odor Control[/url]" by Kathy Barron. Its got some good tips.

Good luck.

Edited by - on

frich
Captain

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USA
418 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 07:40:18

I too have water collectng in my port side compartment next to the stove in the galley (Std Model). I know it is comming in from the genoa track, but was unable to remove the track last summer. I think i need a impact tool to drive the screws out (got the nuts off)
Anyway is there a way i might be able to drill some holes to allow this water to enter the bilge?

And while we are speaking of bilges I have never actually seen where my hose from the hand pump lays. I see it in the cockpit port side compartment going behind the fiberglass and thats it. Am I looking in the wrong place?

Thanks
FrankR
84 5 sk

Edited by - on

GeorgeB
1st Mate

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90 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 10:21:41

I can't address the issues in fin and wing keel versions, but the design of the bilge drainage on a swing keel leaves a lot to be desired. I kept running into problems with items stored in the compartments under the dinnet, being ruined by water coming in from the Genoa track and around the ports.

During my refit this was one of the first things I tackled. Because of the Keel trunk, water does not flow from port to starboard. As Molly Jo's question implies there is no drainage of the area under the dinett table. When I opened this area up there was about three inches of standing water that had accumulated over twenty years.
I also noticed that the blisters on the hull underneath this area were worse than any place else on the hull. I suspect that osmotic migration of this standing water into the "raw" glass contributed.

My upgrades included:1. Sealing off Areas under the two dinett seats from the rest of the bilges, making them water tight.
2. Sealing the area under the galley off from the aft dinnet seat.
3. building a passage for water to pass from the area under the dinnet table, through the aft dinnet seat, to the area under the aft berth.
4. Installing access plates in the cabin sole to provide access to...
5. Two new electric bilge pumps one one each side of the Keel trunk.

Edited by - on

Raskal
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 11:22:11

Molly Jo,
I was able to get a much cleaner smelling boat by persisting at those "unreachable" spaces between the liner and the hull. My weapon of choice was Spray Nine, a powerful disinfectant/degreaser they sell at all the the marine stores (West Marine, Boat US, Boater's World). You'll want to drill limber holes before doing this or be prepared to sponge up gallons of water. DISCONNECT SHORE POWER! and if you have an exposed battery under the port settee disconnect it and cover or remove it.

(A 1/2 inch hole should be in each of the following places: cabin sole galley corner; head sole corner; bow berth floor just behind the wooden door; lazaret floor at the lowest corner; v-berth locker floor on the centerline in front of the bilge wall (go diagonally into the bilge); also a horizontal hole from the port settee into the bilge and another horizontal from the lazarette corner into the v-berth locker. Sorry that this becomes a hole-drilling project, but once done you'll be able to clean this sucker right out every year with a hose.)

What I did was crawl around the edges of the liner wherever I could get at it and spray upward into the slit between the liner and the hull. In the places where the hull was visible, I sprayed directly onto it; sprayed up behind seat backs, crawled into the bow berth and sprayed up into the liner there; opened the quarterberth storage compartment and sprayed up into that liner let a lot drip down under the quarterberth liner (the floor under your q-berth is actually a liner sitting on the hull). Then I let the spray sit for the afternoon and used a hose to spray up into the liner to get it out. I let the runoff fill up the bilge so the degreaser would suds out the underside of the cabin sole, then pumped it out with the bilge pump, which of course cleaned the innerds of that pretty good too.

The effect was kind of like giving the dog a bath; the funny smells are gone for the first time and you start enjoying being around it again!...

Rich Kokoska

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 13:14:08

The odor you describe is most likely being caused by the head. Not directly the head itself but its pumbing. Most of the tube material used in the Catalina is permiable. I.E. It absorbs stuff. Once you flush and drain the head the microbes left inside the tubes grow again. The gas produced by them gets through the tube material and toilet bowl. This creates the odor that gathers while the boat is closed up. http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums/menu.tpl?fno=31 Here is a link to another Catalina site with information about head and odor problems .

With regards to the other problem of water the best course I can recomend here is to find where the water is getting in. Marking inside the hull liner with sidewalk chalk will help locate the path of the water. Look for the area that is washes away after a good rain or soaking with the hose pipe.

Edited by - on

IndyJim
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2003 : 02:06:28

Molly,

I just finished my first winter project and it was to eliminate that "funk" you're talking about. It is, as you said, strongest when the boat has been closed up a day or two. I have chased that odor for nearly 3 years. Once the boat is open and some air circulated the smell went away. Like you, I've bleached and sanitized every nook and cranny I could get to. Until now, nothing worked.
That smell started giving me a complex. I had nighmares about dead critters decaying between the liner and the hull. Also like you, I've removed the fresh water tank and sanitized it thoroughly but the funk still existed.

Just as Don mentioned above, I thought about the hoses... all of them! So, I replaced every hose onboard over the past week. Fresh water fill, fresh water vent, sink drain, icebox drain, waste pump out, waste vent and head hoses. Guess what? The odor is gone!

I think old hoses, (especially 20 year old waste hoses) while they aren't necessarily rotten, acquire and generously distribute a musty/waste smell....kind of like my grandmother's house. It was clean but had an "old funk". Did I say that?

Well, my first major winter project is done! The "funk" is gone from "Itza Dew Sea"!

If you decide to replace your hoses of various diameters and lengths, here's a helpful hint from a skipper that has to learn the hard way. Use some duct tape and tape the end of the new hose to the end of the old hose and then snake it through. Believe me, it can be a $%^&$# to get 2 1/2 inch hose through those holes from the head to the waste tank! Thank goodness the smell is gone!

Good luck!

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2003 : 07:31:19

When replacing the 1-1/2" waste hoses, there's one brand (Sealand? Odor Safe?) that works way better than any other at preventing the return of odors. If you didn't know that, it might not be your first choice because it's about twice as expensive as, and more difficult to work with than, its other white waste hose competitors.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2003 : 07:58:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Leon Sisson
 When replacing the 1-1/2" waste hoses, there's one brand (Sealand? Odor Safe?) that works way better than any other at preventing the return of odors. If you didn't know that, it might not be your first choice because it's about twice as expensive as, and more difficult to work with than, its other white waste hose competitors.

-- Leon Sisson

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Here is the item from West Marine. I installed this hose 2 years ago what a great improvement.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&classNum=146&subdeptNum=145&storeNum=11&productId=57573

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Sid
Navigator

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129 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2004 : 10:38:15

I have the same problem on my C25. The head hoses and holding tank were recently replaced and the odor remains. I haven't seen the area under the dinette and that may be the problem. I had rainwater coming in through leaky deck fittings, which I repaired. I don't have access ports in the dinette footwell. How much room do I have to cut an opening?
Thanks,
Sid

Edited by - on

RoofRoof
Navigator

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USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2004 : 11:08:13

OK, enough about the funk. How about a way to get water out of the starboard side of a SK bilge?

My 1979 has access holes on the port side of the keel, and there is an electric bilge pump for that side. OK.

Starboard side there are NO access holes. The prev. owner rigged some pvc pipe down the starboard side, but it is pumped only by the cockpit hand pump. I want to add electric somehow but can't get down and into where I need to.

Any ideas? What have/do you use?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2004 : 11:56:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RoofRoof
 OK, enough about the funk. How about a way to get water out of the starboard side of a SK bilge?

My 1979 has access holes on the port side of the keel, and there is an electric bilge pump for that side. OK.

Starboard side there are NO access holes. The prev. owner rigged some pvc pipe down the starboard side, but it is pumped only by the cockpit hand pump. I want to add electric somehow but can't get down and into where I need to.

Any ideas? What have/do you use?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Can you use the manual pump pipe as a conduit and run your smaller electric bilge pump hose through it to service that area?

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