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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Starting Honda 9.9

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glstout
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/23/2003 : 15:19:51

1st of all <u>"Merry Christmas"</u> to all

We took delivery of our 2001 C250 WK "O My Nee" and 9.9 XLS electric start (and automatic choke)in the Spring of 2001. We traded our C27 in on it in MI. We brought our C250 to Lake Erie and commute to and from in the Summer from SW Ohio. The 250 and OB perform very well, after I get the OB started, hence the story that follows.

I soon found the starting of the OB could only be accomplished by removing the hood and stuffing a cloth under the air intake to act as a manual choke. After a 5 min warmup it was generally safe to backout of the slip, but still a good idea to keep twisting accel to keep from stalling. Finding this procedure to be "unhandy" I ask a Honda dealer near the NW Ohio marina for opinion and to have a look. After spending 10 minutes to convice this individual that the new 9.9 electric starts had a "fuel enrichment system" (auto choke) decided he was probably not up to the task. He said his mechanic couldn't look at the OB while it was mounted on a Sailboat, as they might drop a tool in the drink. At this point I decided to wait til I brought boat and trailer back to Cincy area at the end of season. I sent a letter to Honda re this dealer that was never answered.

Took the OB to Cincy dealer for service and look over; they serviced, found no problem and recommended more fuel stabilizer. Next season (2002) same problems with cold start. At the end of 2002 season I returned the OB to Cincy dealer and they still could not find the problem. For various reasons I have no fault with this dealer.

Decided to do the service myself at the end of 2003; went to dealer and purchased fuel and oil filters and discussed the situation, we have developed a certain rapport over the past couple of years and I trust this mechanic. I ask about purchase of a shop manual and soon
procured one by mail. In reading the manual I find the fuel enrichment system contains a spring that pushes a rod into wax as the engine cools, this rod closes the choke butterfly. When the engine starts and warms the wax melts and the choke opens! At this point I ask if the Auto Choke can be converted to Manual; it certainly appears possible to both myself and mechanic. Mechanic asks Honda area rep; rep authorizes replacing carb as there "were a few problems with the first 9.9s w/ electric start".

Soooo I anxiously await Spring not only for sailing season but more sailing time so I don't have to spend quite as much time starting the 115 lb OB. I really expect this to work but still would really like to have a few words with the engineer that come up with an auto choke on a 9.9; the manual start version has a manual choke.

The Stouts waiting on Santa and then Spring and "O My Nee" splash down

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2003 : 20:50:06

I have to say that I think you are the only other person who seems, after reading your post, to understand what I went through last Spring with my 2002 9.9 LS! The original Honda rep I bought it from, whose store I even forbid my kids going within 100 feet of!, told me that what I was telling him could not be happening. I would have to take the top off, cover the intake valve with my hand and wait until it warmed up - even though it was warm outside. The Honda dealer just would not believe it, nor would he come across the street to the boat saying I needed to take the motor to him! He said that electric start motor has an automatic choke and therefore couldn't be doing what I was telling him. He also said he talked with his Honda rep who said it couldn't happen.

In the meantime, I knew deep in my heart that he sold me the wrong size shaft and that I really needed the XLS. I took it to another dealer in another city, where I work, and he took the motor and worked on it and later said he replaced the carburetor. I'm frankly not sure he really understood what I was telling him either, but he took the motor in, found a new owner for it (taking no commission for himself in that sale) and I bought a 2003 XLS from him. I talked with the guy who bought the LS said it worked fine for him, so I presume my new dealer figured it out. My new motor ran all last season like a dream! My new dealer runs his business with his wife and I even took them flowers after I got my new one on the boat and saw it worked fine.

I share your frustration as others were convincing me what was happening really wasn't happening. Because I thought maybe I was becoming delusional, I even took friends along to verify that I was putting my hand under the intake valve to start it! Sorry to be so long with this, but I don't share this story with many people because they say it can't happen.

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2003 : 00:42:09

I am reminded of the first few years of Catalytic converters on cars here in California, starting in 1975, If I remember correctly. The smog control systems, sensors, valves, and miles of tubing and wiring under the hood, required to support the catalytic converter, were suddenly becoming so complicated that even dealership mechanics were often at a loss when presented with a badly-running engine. Ever since then, it has become more and more problematical to try and work on your own car, and I am afraid that boat motors are going to end up the same way, smothered under smog controls and electronic systems to the point that if it quits running or won't start, it will be impossible to diagnose and repair other than by a factory service shop or delearship. The old outboards got lousy fuel economy, but they were so simple that they would run forever as long as you changed the oil once a year and didn't let the gas get grossly stale or contaminated with water or crud.

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2003 : 06:50:50

As one who has had perpetual problems with a Honda 8 manual start, I can sympathize with you. I have been told the same kinds of things by the dealers I have had work with it. Last year I took it to nearby dealer in October, told them no hurry, and started following up in February. Couldn't find a problem, and finally replaced the carb _ I think that is Honda's stock and trade answer, and it still didn't work, hard to impossible to start.

Sssoooo, next spring, I'm changing models, going to Nissan/Tohotsu which seem to have a very reliable line of obs.

And, the interesting thing is no one wants to believe that Hondas have any difficulty. People at the club who have lived with over the past three years with this thing still keep saying but its a Honda. Still not a very good product!

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2003 : 12:49:09

"perpetual problems with a Honda 8 manual start"

Don, what vintage is your Honda 8? The older version or the new one?
I've never had any issues with mine (the 'classic' version)... or the Honda
7.5 hp that preceeded it.

I think the idle control circuits are so finicky in the new models that the slightest "anomaly" in the starting circuit really makes them hard to start.

For a look at real complexity, take a peek under the cowl of a modern high-hp 2-stroke outboard... you can't even see the engine block for all the wires and hoses.

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