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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Staying Off the Rocks

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reuben
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/10/2004 : 23:29:12

The 250 I'm looking at has a Danforth anchor - I don't know what weight - but my brother who's worked on fishing boats in heavy Alaskan waters recommends a plough anchor, saying most of the commercial fishermen rely on them. The West Marine catalogue offers a variety of anchors most of which are new to me - the spade, the plough etc. - and of course the Danforth. What are your experiences? Ever been dragged on windy nights? Got a favorite?

Reuben
C-250 WK #499
Bayfield, WI

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/10/2004 : 23:54:15

Rueben, there is good reason for concern... the C250 can generate a lot of forces to strain on her rode during a microburst or very strong winds. More later on this....

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 01/11/2004 06:31:45

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2004 : 03:19:01

Rueben,

Are you planning to fish commercially in heavy Alaskan waters with your 25' sailboat?

Seriously, anchoring is a complex topic, and likely to arouse many strong and varied opinions.

There are many different styles and sizes of anchors for various situations and conditions. (Some of them seem to only perform at their best when separating the buyer from his money at the cash register.

)

If you look in the West Marine or other boating catalogs, you will see recommended sizes for each anchor type and length of boat. I would suggest using those numbers as a starting point in determining what size anchor(s) you need.

As for type, Danforth style, also known as "light weight", anchors are very efficient in soft sand and mud when the pull is in a constant direction. Under those circumstances, a Danforth holds better, pound for pound, than any other type. The aluminum Fortress series light weights are especially good in this respect.

Another type I like is the modern one piece plows, such as the Delta, Spade, Bruce, and Claw. They are more reliable in hard sand, rock, grass, gravel, etc. than the lightweights. These types are also quicker to set, and much more likely to reset OK after a wind shift.

In my opinion, the classic CQR plow, so popular with blue water cruisers equipped with power windlasses, is not appropriate for 25' coastal cruisers. Although CQRs work in a broad variety of bottoms and tolerate veering well, they don't hold as hard for their weight as the others I've mentioned. On a 25' boat, that translates to hand hauling (and storing on the bow) a pretty darn hefty hook. I wouldn't want an all chain rode on a small boat without a power windlass for the same reasons. (Haul up a 10kg Bruce with a boat length of chain a few times in rapid succession while searching for a good spot to put it, and see how much enthusiasm you have left in your back for a 35# plow with all chain. If you're singlehanding into a tight or crowded anchorage with some wind blowing, doing this at a leasurely pace may not be an option.)

What I carry rigged and ready on the bow (in other words, "my opinion in steel and nylon") is both a Danforth High Tensile and a Claw, each one size larger than the standard recommended.

The 20# Danforth has 20' of the suggested size chain, and 300' of 3/8" nylon double braid. If I could afford to, I'd cheerfully replace this one with an aluminum Fortress. I might even consider a slightly shorter chain to further reduce weight.

The 22# Claw has 30' of the next larger size chain, and 250' of 7/16" nylon double braid.

My stern anchor/lunch hook is a standard size Danforth with maybe 10' of light chain and 100' of 3/8" nylon double braid.

My spare anchor is a rusty old generic lightweight at least one size larger than the standard recommended, with maybe 15' of heavy chain and 115' of 1/2" nylon three strand. (That's the ground tackle that came with my boat.) Three strand nylon works as well as double braid, I'm just a double braid kind of guy.

I also carry an additional 100' x 3/8" nylon double braid rode made up with thimble eye splices and shackles at both ends ready to extend any of the other rodes, or to use as a tow rope, extra long dock line, or whatever.

Every bit as important as choosing the appropriate ground tackle, is having a reliable means of attaching it firmly to the boat. I replaced the original narrow, thin, plywood bow cleat backing plates (which had rotted to dust) with larger 3/16" thick epoxy fiberglass backing plates bedded with epoxy fiberglass mush. I also drilled out the bow cleats to take 5/16" machine screws with large fender washers, flat washers, split washers, and nylock nuts. But that's me. According to the specs, the stock 1/4" bow cleat bolts should be just about strong enough to lift an entire C-250 by one cleat.

Using only the Claw anchor with the above tackle, I've anchored over shifting sand and volcanic rock with the bow plunging up to the deck in steep waves and stinging rain produced by a violent tropical thunder storm. The rode felt bar taught, and I certainly couldn't have retrieved the anchor until conditions subsided, but my point is that everything held. (I had also deployed the Danforth, just in case the Claw needed backup, but that rode remained slack.)

-- Leon Sisson

P.S. I concur with Arlyn's suggestion of setting out two anchors in a V to stop boats like ours from hunting at anchor. Every time I've done it, it's worked like a charm. Unlike a riding sail, it also offers a reduntant grip on the ground. Done with two different styles of anchor, it offers a second chance at guessing which type is going to hold in whatever is down there.

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2004 : 11:15:02

WOW all that information was good. The most important thing is what is the typical bottom like in your local crusing area. That will determine what anchor you need. Pick up a spare of another sort latter. E bay or garage or marine sale is a good place to look. I have 3 anchors aboard Triska. 2 35lb CQRs and a 20lb Danforth.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2004 : 11:43:51

As usual, Leon has the "Bristol" setup. (grins). Completely agree with everything he's stated.

For 'most' conditions, I'd recommend a 12 lb Danforth for your 'lunch' anchor with a 16-18 lb "Bruce" or "Delta" design as your "standard" overnight anchor (for mild conditions).

Depending on your cruising circumstances, I'd also recommend carrying a "1-size up" (20-25 lb) Delta or Bruce as a secondary storm/emergency anchor.. with it's own chain/rode stored in a ready-to-go state.

Having the proper amount of chain, anchor fittings, and scope of rode are nearly as critical as the anchor design/weight itself.

As Leon pointed out, entire books are written on this topic.

Edited by - on

reuben
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2004 : 14:08:08

Hey, as usual: you folks are terrific. Thorough, fast, and generous. I should add the lake we're planning to cruise tends toward sandy, weedy and rocky bottoms. Much of it is also shallow, ten to thirty feet in depth, so waves kick up in a hurry. Seems to me the importance of anchor choice can't be overstated as your lives & boat ride upon it regularly. Any more stories you have to tell I'd love to hear.

Edited by - on

Todd Frye
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2004 : 11:34:04

Reuben,
"Staying off the rocks" caught my eye, as I've posted on this subject fairly recently. I am not as experienced with anchoring as those who have contributed so far, but it is a subject that has really caught my interest. Along with practicing MOB drills, I like to practice anchoring drills, first under normal conditions, then when things get a little hairy. These drills change dramatically from having a crew to assist, to being single-handed. If your primary drags, breaks or ???, is your back up accessible? Do you have a system that lets you know if you are dragging when anchoring out? How do you retrieve when it's really blowing? How quick can you deploy? Hopefully in less than 30 seconds. The right anchor for the right conditions is obviously important, but a working knowledge through practice and the resulting confidence in your system could keep you off the rocks. Todd Frye

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2004 : 13:14:42

Hi all,

I've just been reading the chapter on anchoring in my Chapman Piloting & Seamanship book. Very interesting reading. One thing I learned that had not occurred to me was to make sure your anchor rope, as well as your docklines for that matter, are the right diameter. Obviously if it is too thin it will break. But also, it should not be too thick either. Part of the action that the rode provides is to stretch, between 15 & 20% I think, thereby obsorbing the shock during heavy weather. If the rope portion of the rode is too thick for your size boat, it will not strech and the shock will be absorbed by the cleats on your boat.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2004 : 14:54:35

Danforths work good in sandy bottoms. They don't work well in weedy or muddy bottoms. For weeds I'd recommend a plough of some kind (I like the Delta compared to the CQR).

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2004 : 15:59:22

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[The anchor rode] should not be too thick either. Part of the action that the rode provides is to stretch, between 15 & 20% I think, thereby obsorbing the shock during heavy weather. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
One of the most amazing examples of this principle that I ever saw was when Jacque Cousteau anchored his converted minesweeper in the mid-Atlantic in several thousand feet of water on a 3/8 " nylon rode.

Edited by - on

Raskal
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2004 : 18:20:26

If it doesn't behave this season I'll probably be anchoring with a 120-lb Honda 4-stroke outboard...

Rich K.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2004 : 20:29:33

Rueben, for the type of bottoms you believe you are likely to encounter I'd recommend a Delta, with a trip line for rocks, as your primary anchor for use in rock, hard mud, marl, weed and sand.

Deltas are "okay" for rock but are not at all ideal, in fact no one type of anchor is ideal for all bottoms.

For a backup I'd carry a Danforth Hi Tensile which is terrific for sand and soft mud and will bury into them like a clam.

Since my sailing area is almost all sand or soft mud bottoms, I use the Danforth Hi Tensile as a primary and Delta for backup.

As for rode, I've been using 300 feet of 1/2" three strand with 6 feet of 7/16" chain per anchor which allows for plenty of stretch and holding power. I like the extra rode diameter as protection against chaff, the feel of the 3 strand line when I have to haul it up, and the fact that it's easier to stow.

Modern double braid looks cool but I think it's a poor choice for anchor rode.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2004 : 21:23:22

I'll add a vote for the Delta--the 14 pounder is at least adequate for our boats... My lunch hook is a Danforth. Also, triple-strand nylon gives more stretch and therefore shock absorbtion, as well as better grip for retrieving, than double-braid.

Here on Long Island Sound, we must expect the current to swing us 180+ degrees overnight, so a quick-setting anchor is important.

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2004 : 21:27:15

I converted to Bruce and was well pleased in a couple of blows. Would like to add a DElta. Used Danforths for years, but up in NY/New England waters on sandy bottoms where they could be well dug in, I set them by backing down under power as hard as I ever could. They will hold you IF you can get them dug in. Dr. Ogg, the inventor, once anchored his 40 plus foot Huckins power yacht and then rafted up a sailboat on each side, held all three in a 45 knot blow, rode was THREE EIGHTHS. Needless to say, the bottom was sand. gODSPEED, RON SRSK #2343 1981 ORION SW FL

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