Association Forum - Hull#727 Page 2, Continued

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Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Hull#727 Page 2, Continued

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Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/11/2004 : 23:35:55

The entire post wouldn't fit on a single page so this is the continuation...sorry about that....

On December 12th I received a short phone call from Frank Butler, but only after I contacted Kent Nelson and asked him what was happening with the information and photos I forwarded to him at his request. Mr. Butler advised me he would be sending me a letter. His December 20th letter indicated that my boat has “minor gel coat crazing”.

In a third phone conversation on December 24th I tried to explain the bow damage and sequence of events to Frank Butler and Gerry Douglas, so they could understand what the photos really meant in the sequence of the damage. It was quite obvious to me that they were more interested in finding a way to blame me for the damage during the time I towed the boat home. Mr. Douglas intimated that the boat wasn’t properly seated in the bow cradles when I towed it home. Yet the physical evidence and photographic evidence shows the same damage on the boat the first time I saw it that currently exists on the bow at the present time. At some point in these conversations I was told that the damage only amounted to 2 or 3 hours of work.

I think we all remember that the damage to Hull #734 that was delivered to Fleming Island, FL was only going to require 2 to 3 hours of repairs, according to Frank Butler’s foreman.

It is obvious that they are searching for a way to blame me for the damage to the boat that is evident in photos I took the morning of September 17th, and still remains on the boat to this date. Frank Butler has promised to send me another letter. If I had to guess, it will be an attempt to minimize Catalina’s costs for the repair of my boat and a denial that Catalina did anything wrong in building and delivering my boat.

I may not be a boating person but in my professional career I have investigated many cases of damages caused by corporations, and their pattern is to blame everyone but themselves, even to the point of ignoring the clear evidence. I don’t know why I expected anything else, but I truly wanted to expect the best.

The dealer has told me to go ahead and use my boat, as the damage is only cosmetic. I haven’t sailed the boat since I discovered the gel coat problems, as it is difficult for me to have faith and trust in what I’m being told given the totality of the circumstances since the day I ordered my boat.

This isn’t to say I wouldn’t purchase another boat from Catalina because I really like my boat for the reasons I made the decision to buy a C250 WK, but I would really do it differently the next time, and I doubt they would be willing to sell me a boat, given the conditions I would insist on in a contract.

Dan #727

Edited by - Dkn420 on 01/12/2004 01:30:12

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2004 : 09:46:15

Dan,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I took delivery of Lady Kay earlier last year, but it was already on the dealers property, so what I saw was what I got. (We won't go into the things I did not see, but they were minor and have been taken care of, and did not prohibit us from enjoying the boat.)

The impression I get, if all your facts are correct, is that you are dealing with a less than above board dealer who appears financially constrained, iow possibly could not get Catalina to ship him the boat untill he paid them......and does not appear to have poper facilities to do the necessary work....(works out of the trunk of his car...) or tried to save money by having the boats delivered somewhere else than his place of business. He possibly did notice the damage but ignored it to make the deal go through, and make his money.

Having dealt with Catalina directly, I can name a number of strengths and weaknesses in their practices, but they are not shady. I have felt that they always played by the rules, although the rules are not always in our favor. I would not be surprised if, right now, it's your word against the dealers, and they are, with the information they have, supporting the dealer. Having said that, I also wonder to what degree Catalina scrutinizes new dealers. I have been to one in my area, for a warrantee visit, that had never seen a 250.....

Catalina does a lot of business with very few people. I can only imagine what Franks/Gerrys/Kents desks look like. They do not always get the correct picture. I have called them and explained things, only to find out in follow up calls that they did not get the point. I suggest the following:

1. Even if you write Frank Butler a letter, he will get six phone calls while reading it.... You must get his undivided attention. I would go to California with all the evidence and sit down face to face with him and make sure that he understands the situation. Specifically, you will have to convince him that the dealer is possibly not above board.

2 If the dealer is what I think he is, nothing you will say or do is going to make him fix the problem because it appears the damage is more than cosmetic, and he can't fix it. To get the right thing done, he would now have to change his story with Catalina.

3 From the stand point of protecting yourself as a consumer, you have made a number of mistakes, you already know that. Still, if cornering Frank fails, go to a lawyer, and see if there's a way to fix this problem.

Good luck, keep us posted.

Side note, I know Kent visits this forum. You can hint at spreading the story all over here, and the damage it does to Catalina's reputation. They are somewhat sensitive to it.

Oscar

Lady Kay 250 WB #618
Sunrise on the Neuse River...

Edited by - Oscar on 01/12/2004 10:24:53

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2004 : 06:40:54

What a horror story. I thought mine was bad with the orginial hull 734. The difference being is I refused delivery, since it was suppose to be done at my local boat yard. That option you did not have plus being new to the boat buying industry you did not know how to inspect and refuse.
As you stated you gave away your leverage by giving the dealer all his pennies before the boat even arrived. I would agree with Oscar that a face to face would be the only way to assure that Frank understood where you are coming from. I am sure with your dated pictures even he could not defend the dealers lack of customer service. If all fails then the lawyer would be your only avenue remaining. There is a breach of contract issue here, I think, since the boat was not delivered in the condition you paid for, ie. NEW AND UNDAMAGED.
I cannot believe you had to pay for your warranty and association dues. Has anyone else had to pay for their warranty and association dues when they purchased their boat? I sure did not and would not have anyway.
Good luck and keep on swinging. I am sure all on this forum are pulling for you do get your problems resolved to your satisfaction and will put the word out on the irresponseable dealer in Lake Tahoe.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2004 : 08:29:45

The first years association dues are paid by Catalina factory to the association directly and are based on every hull built. The dealer comes into play with that when making a sale... he supplies Catalina with the information on the buyer so that the membership information can be forwarded to the association. The dealer plays no part in the money end of it. And, the amount is not $15 dollars but $20 that Catalina sends to the association. Its possible that the dealer is an individual that looks to every scheme possible... and used the membership program to extract another 15 from your pocket to his.

Rggarding the boat... it is reasonable that there are defects in both construction and shipping. This is not a perfect world, some give their best and othrer don't. Even those who do their best, come up short of the mark at times. What is important is getting the boat in great condition whether thats done by you, the dealer or Catalina.

I think I'd want the dealer to keep his hands off it. He has shown his colors and I'd stay away from him which is exactly what he wants. But...he will bite the dust... because he obviously is not taking care of business...

I would look for a good repair facility, get an estimate, and in your communication with Catalina impress upon them that to be their financial burden under warranty. Even if the damage was done on your drive home... Catalina and their represntative dealer had a responsibility to load the boat properly on the trailer during commissioning.

If Catalina doesn't take care of this... and I think they will, I'd look into taking your dealer to task in small claims court. They deal with who says what every day... and while I'm not cetain that the dealer has any blood to squeeze, you will win because he has voided any defense by his unscrupulous application of association and warranty fees. He will be seen for what he is...