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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Honda 8hp vs 9.9hp

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Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2004 : 10:33:07

My problems with Honda lean more towards the dealer set up. Honda is very tight with parts and dealers. Places like West Marine aren't going to have much for the Honda and you have to go to the dealer. Dealers may be few and far between, and with no competitors they can charge whatever they want. Yamaha is less restrictive and you can buy the basics everywhere. Last straw for me was when I neededd shear pins for the Honda last year. Had to drive all over the place trying to find them and ended up having to go 45 minutes out of town to the only dealer around that had them in stock.
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The motors themselves are decent, but the do have fuel and cooling passages that are way too small and clog easily.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2004 : 10:57:22

The new emmissions standards (like California's) have pushed carburated small-engine technology to the breaking point. Small amounts of H2O, other contaminants, or the slightest mis-adjustment now cause big troubles... in the previous generations, the engine would simply digest them and keep running. I expect this problem to spread as more engines are brought up to the 2006 CARB specifications (Califorina).

Computer-controlled fuel injection is the (current) answer for gas engines... but may not be feasible on these small motors... they'd probably be up to 150 lbs.

IMHO, from a rational point of view, the pollution caused by a small 4 stroke (that might burn 10 gallons of fuel in a year) is insiginficant compared to other sources and probably could/should have been left 'well enough alone'. Unfortunately, a lot of modern regulations/regulators aren't very rational.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2004 : 14:42:59

Re. age of my Honda,

Off the top of my head I don't know, I've had the boat for 5 years, and the ob was 2 or 3 years old then. That would make it 7 or 8 years old - a 95 or 96 version. I suspect you are right about the tiniest amount of impurities in the fuel system cause problems starting the thing. But last year the Honda dealer looked at it and couldn't figure out why, replaced the carb, and still had the same problem.

Enough of my harping, needless to say I am very biased against Honda ob's.

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2004 : 14:55:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Unfortunately, a lot of modern regulations/regulators aren't very rational.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Very true -- probably because of the long series of politics involved (often compromises). Engine makers try to react to new state engine laws, which were in reaction to new water conditions, which were in reaction to new state gas laws, which were in reaction to oil company costs, which were in reaction to new federal air pollution laws, etc., etc...

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">you're lucky to live in a state where you still have a choice<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Clam:

I recall you reside somewhere on the Northern California coast, not far from Oregon? If you plan to boat only in saltwater, with little or no chance of taking your boat to any freshwater lake which prohibits 2-stroke engines, an alternative is a trip to Oregon (Ashland, Medford, etc.) to pick up a new 2-stroke (and no sales tax!). While it's probably hard to predict which lakes will go 2-strokeless next, I think it will be a long time when they get banned outright in ocean waters.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2004 : 15:12:06

Are there really OB police?
I hope Arnold fixes things for you guys. The real tragedy is most of us mock you Californians for your special interest groups (how are those seals doing?) then WE end up with products driven by the size of your marketplace. (Much as Texas determines the content of Kansas text books!)

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 02/07/2004 16:55:19

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2004 : 20:11:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Are there really OB police?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

While I haven't been to Lake Tahoe since the ban was put into effect, I'd guess the OB Police are the same guys who enforce drunk boating, child lifejacket, no-wake zone and other boating laws; and they probably get a lot of help (i.e. dropping a dime) from most lawful boaters, marina operators, casual bystanders, etc. I'd also guess people trying to skirt this law is pretty rare there.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">your special interest groups <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Your right -- I understand the special interest group in this case was the big oil companies. The culprit is MTBE, an oxygenate additive to gasoline for reducing air pollution mandated by federal laws. A few years back the state approved MTBE under intense lobbying pressure, while ignoring it's obvious chemical properties which experts unpaid by the oil companies universally predicted would cause problems to drinking water supplies. As usual, there were other issues, as well, which resulted in a political compromise, including the approval of MTBE. While other's may disagree, I feel it was/is MBTE in drinking water supplies which is the leading issue driving the ban of selling "regular" 2-stroke motors throughout the state and their use in certain lakes. Due to MTBE's somewhat nasty effects on people's health even at very low levels, I predict certain freshwater lakes will start to ban 4-stroke engines, as well. However, as people don't drink salt water (usually) and the Pacific Ocean has tremendous diluting powers, the use of 2-strokes should be ok there for a while.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I hope Arnold fixes things for you guys<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I hope so, too. But Mr. Terminator's main focus now is on the budget, and early rumor has it that he is more fiscally involved, adroit and responsible than many had predicted. Time will tell, though...

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2004 : 12:17:01

Jonathon,

From a strictly horsepower angle, I'm not so sure the extra 1.9Hp of the 9.9Hp is going to make a difference since this extra horsepower is generated at 5,500 rpms and I doubt that you'll be cranking the throttle that high no matter what the conditions.

I can't even rev my 8hp at full throttle because when I try, the bow tries to get over the bow wave and the stern squats which causes the motor to labor and bog down resulting in the boating actually slowing down.

Anybody out there ever run their 9.9 at full bore?

Edited by - dlucier on 02/09/2004 12:44:56

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2004 : 13:55:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 the stern squats which causes the motor to labor and bog down resulting in the boating actually slowing down.

Anybody out there ever run their 9.9 at full bore?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I have found that the trim angle of the engine needs to be different for full throttle, it levels the boat out. That would be an advantage to the new Yamaha if the power tilt is infinately adjustable.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2004 : 16:34:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 the stern squats which causes the motor to labor and bog down resulting in the boating actually slowing down.

Anybody out there ever run their 9.9 at full bore?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I have found that the trim angle of the engine needs to be different for full throttle, it levels the boat out. That would be an advantage to the new Yamaha if the power tilt is infinately adjustable.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't believe a motor's trim angle can stop a boat from trying to crawl over it's bow wave at speed.

Edited by - dlucier on 02/09/2004 19:37:27

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2004 : 23:09:00

That is true, I just occationally squat my stern from poor trim and am glad when I can correct it.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2004 : 08:34:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Doug
 
The motors themselves are decent, but the do have fuel and cooling passages that are way too small and clog easily.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I stopped in at Buck's Outboards here in Sacramento last weekend to look at the new Yamaha T8, and in talking to the service manager, he stated that all of the small motor carburetors have become extremely sensitive to contaminents in their fuel. It's not just a Honda problem. The Federal and California emmission standards are so stringent now that the "normal" fuel mixture has been leaned out to where a boat motor will barely run even when everything is optimal. He said that it is now mandatory to have good quality filtration in your fuel line, and to keep the gas "fresh", meaning that each spring when putting the boat back in service after a winter layup, last year's old gas should be dumped and replaced with new fuel.

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