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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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C25 cracked keel

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seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/06/2004 : 16:01:29

Greetings:

A foot long vertical (not very deep), crack has appeared in the middle of my 1983 C25 keel on the portside. I bought the boat March '03 and the crack wasn't there then. We think that bilgewater may have seeped through the keel bolts, frozen during this winter (I live in NH) and expanded, resulting in this crack. I think I can fix this myself but am looking for input from others that have worked with fiberglass & resin before me. I can be reached via this forum or email at seastream@adelphia.net will reach me. Thanks.

Seastream

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2004 : 18:04:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by seastream
 Greetings:
I can be reached via this forum or email at seastream@adelphia.net will reach me. Thanks.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

People are not ignoring you, there are simply very few people qualified to respond to your post, just wait, they will come.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2004 : 18:53:34

I too have an '83 sail #3744 which I have owned since she was new. The keel is lead which is unlikely to crack.

Additionally, any accumulated bilgewater is unlikely to exert enough hydrostatic pressure to migrate down through the keel bolts unless you have loose keel bolts or a more serious problem, in which case your boat will take on water like the dickens since the hydrostatic pressure exerted against the keel will be far greater from the outside in, than from the bilge out.

Have you observed water entering the bilge from the keel bolts while afloat?

I'm just guessing, but it appears to me that it is more likely that some water got in between the lead keel and some of the fairing putty when the boat was afloat, froze, expanded and cracked the putty.

In that case all you have is a cosmetic problem which can be repaired with some fairing putty.

I'm not certain if the entire production run of '83s was built with lead keels attached with stainless keel bolts.

You can check your keel with a magnet to determine if it is lead or cast iron. If you have stainless keelbolts they're easy to spot since they will appear shiny and new as opposed to the dull, somewhat rusty mild steel keel bolts used with the cast iron keels.

Of course, not having seen the boat I'm only guessing, but the situation you described doesn't seem to be caused by water leaking down from the bilge.

I hope this helps.

Edited to add, when you do determine the cause of this crack I hope you post it here. That's how we all learn.

Edited by - oldsalt on 02/06/2004 18:56:10

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2004 : 19:13:37

seastream,

We need more info about your keel. Please describe its construction in more detail. Post photos of the problem area if you can. Wait a few days for responses to accumulate.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2004 : 20:35:06

Let's try again. Now I REALLY know how to post pix. Here's my cracked keel pix:

Thanks to everyone for all your help thus far, particularly 'old salt', whose input has kept my imagination from running worst case wild and driving me weeping mad...I may not need a keelectomy after all!

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2004 : 22:48:06

Sure looks like a 'surface' phenoenma to me... I can't envision what sort of blow would make the basic keel structure crack in that fashion.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2004 : 23:13:48

It looks like a minor surface flaw to me, one which existed since the keel was cast and which was covered with some putty or such.

Something probably caused it to become uncovered. The other markings on the keel also appear to be from the original casting but may be corrosion if your keel is iron.

There's a lot of keel and only a little "defect" so it's likey insignificant, not structual.

I've seen guys with cast iron keels which had really large areas of corrosion, grind out the bad metal, rustproof and fair them with excellent results.

Other guys sail for years with keels that are all gouged out and don't bother. There's a lot of metal down there, enough to last for several lifetimes.

Have you put a magnet to your keel to determine if it's lead or iron?

If your hull number is higher than mine your keel is "almost" certainly lead. "almost", because with Catalina, production runs don't always follow a linear progression and some later hull numbers have retro grade features.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2004 : 11:29:03

Hi Robert... Your freezing theory may have some merit, although the water could be entering from places other than the bilge. My lead keel is encapsulated with fiberglass, which I have to presume is subject to damage from things as simple as getting planted in the bottom when the tide goes lower than expected. The glass is quite thick (I saw another C-25 that had hit a rock), but the boat, after all, is over 5000 lbs. The net of it is, the fiberglass is not structural except, to an extent, at the hull joint where I would guess it adds some strength. I also suspect it reproduces the shape and surface area of the original cast iron keel, given that lead is enough denser that a solid lead casting the same size would be too heavy.

Edited by - on

seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2004 : 12:26:21

Dave: I thought ALL keels of this sort whether iron or lead, were glassed over, since the hull itself is fiberglass...isn't it? Is this or not what is called a 'full keel' boat? I think not.

Edited by - on

seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2004 : 12:27:06

Where do I find the hull number?

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2004 : 12:29:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by seastream
 Where do I find the hull number?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The hull number is the serial number of your boat and it can be found in your hull identification number (HIN). The serial number is also your sail number.

For more infomation on your HIN, check out this link on [url="http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.html"]Boatsafe.com[/url].

Edited by - dlucier on 02/07/2004 12:32:06

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2004 : 13:16:17

Well you already know you have to do SOMETHING right. Have you thought about drilling a hole in the lower area of the crack to see what comes out ? A drill hole is easy to fill. It sure would give a possative idea of whats in there. Is there any craking or weeping of fluid at the keel to hull joint ? Also inspect the foot of the keel to see if any cracks are there that might have alowed water in.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2004 : 15:02:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by seastream
 Dave: I thought ALL keels of this sort whether iron or lead, were glassed over, since the hull itself is fiberglass...isn't it? Is this or not what is called a 'full keel' boat? I think not.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The early C-25 had a cast iron keel that was painted--not glassed. Some time around 1982 (?) they switched to lead in fiberglass.

You're right--the C-25 is not a full-keel boat--a full keel starts near the bow and runs back to the rudder, which is mounted to the aft edge, as on Cape Dorys and Albergs.(http://www.capedory.org/specs/cd28.htm) Good for directioal stability in large seas, not so good for tight turns around a dock, and too much wetted surface for a racer.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2004 : 15:28:29

Edited by - on

seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2004 : 16:34:57

My HIN is CTYK381783I
The CTY tells me that the manufacturer was Catalina Yachts (we knew) the hull number is K3817 (we think) and the manufacture year is 83 (we knew). I don't know what the I letter on the end is for. Interesting to note that there's only 11 characters instead of the 12 that the 'boatsafe' hin link indicated there should be...dunno why.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2004 : 16:42:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by seastream
 My HIN is CTYK381783I
The CTY tells me that the manufacturer was Catalina Yachts (we knew) the hull number is K3817 (we think) and the manufacture year is 83 (we knew). I don't know what the I letter on the end is for. Interesting to note that there's only 11 characters instead of the 12 that the 'boatsafe' hin link indicated there should be...dunno why.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The "I" probably means that the month of certification was April. According to your HIN your hull number is 3817 (sail number). There might also be a placard in the cockpit just beneath the tiller with the hull number stamped on it as well.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2004 : 22:14:02

You have a lead keel which is not likely to suffer a structural crack, nor will it corrode.

Almost a ton of lead and what amounts to a thin, insignificant surface blemish.

Edited by - on

seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2004 : 21:46:38

Thanks again, old salt. I've been trying to post a pix of my boat, but Shutterfly.com where the pix resides isn't cooperating though it did for the keel pix.

Edited by - on

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