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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Autopilot recommendations?

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High H2O
1st Mate

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35 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/12/2004 : 12:43:13

I'm considering the purchase of an Autohelm ST1000 Plus for my C250WB. My primary reason is to ease singlehanded tacks and jibes. Is this the right "tool for the job"? I have the second generation rudder and agree with Arlyn that it could be an arm/autopilot breaker. However, the ST1000 is rated for a much larger boat than the C250. I also like the GPS interface idea. Should be useful at some of the cruising destinations I have in mind.

Ric

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cclark
Navigator

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USA
104 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 13:34:37

I am also adding an Autopilot. I haven't received it yet, but I ordered the Simrad TP20. It is similiarly priced as the ST1000 but rated for more load. If my memory seves me, the ST1000's rating is close to the weight of a C25 with crew. Also, the TP20 has remote and GPS interface possiblities that the ST1000 does not.
Chris

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 13:39:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cclark
 Also, the TP20 has remote and GPS interface possiblities that the ST1000 does not. Chris
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The ST1000+ has both a remote and GPS interface.

In a topic titled, [url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5094"]Autopilot Anomaly[/url] I wrote about a problem I had with the ST1000+ autopilot. In that thread someone stated that this problem is prevented in the Simrad unit because it has end limit switches. Anyway, here is what I wrote...

I’m passing this information along to those who have the Raymarine ST1000+ autopilot…

Today, the Raymarine technician who repaired my still under warranty ST1000+ called to tell me that it was repaired and on its way back to me. The main reason he wanted to talk to me personally was not to inform me of my autopilot's status, but to give me some advice on the use of the autohelm autopilot, particularly the "AutoTack" feature.

He started out by telling me that what he was about to say would probably sound a little odd coming from a Raymarine representative, but it needed to be said. What he went on to tell me was something I discovered and knew about shortly after installing the autopilot two seasons ago.

Anyway, he informed me that the "AutoTack" feature causes the vast majority of premature drive failures, such as what happened to my ST1000+, and SHOULDN”T BE USED.

The reason is that AutoTack turns the boat through 100 degrees (just as if you hit the 10 degree button 10 times), but the autopilot itself will only turn through 30 degrees before the ram maxes out. So until the boat hits 70 degrees of the turn, the ram is maxed out and stops moving, while the drive motor continues to work resulting in a lot of squealing and groaning. Once the boat reaches the 70 degree point of the tack, it stops overdriving and the ram starts moving back towards the center position as the boat approaches the full 100 degrees of the tack. Before the autopilot reaches 70 degrees though, the unhealthy noises emanating from the unit are contributing to premature drive failure.

This technician has asked the engineering department to incorporate end limit switches to shut the drive motor down to prevent overdriving, but he said the engineers haven’t been too responsive. This leaves the repair technicians to continue to make repairs and call customers to alert them to this problem.

I asked the technician if it would behoove me to upgrade to the ST2000+, with its faster ram speed, and he stated that this is even more of a problem with the ST2000+ because the ram moves faster and will max out sooner causing the autopilot to overdrive for a longer period of time.

I found out about this anomaly soon after installing my autopilot and pretty much wrote off the AutoTack feature as useless and haven’t used it since, but those first initial times I used it along with the couple of times when the ram inadvertently hit the end of its travel was enough to cause my unit to fail prematurely. So the moral of this is, if you have either the ST1000 or ST2000, you may want to stay away from the AutoTack feature. I know I will!

Edited by - dlucier on 02/12/2004 13:56:14

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 13:42:01

I think that the Simrad (Navico) and Autohelm (Raytheon?) tillerpilots are almost identical in construction, quality, and features, so there is little difference in brand. However, there is one big difference in the mechanism; the light and medium duty models have a screw thread actuator, and the heavy duty unit uses a recirculating ball actuator like the steering box on a full size pickup truck. Externally the three sizes are the same, about 25" long, but inside, where it really counts, the recirc ball actuator of the heavy duty unit is much sturdier and would probably last the life of the boat, especially on a C-25, which is a much smaller boat than the unit is designed for. The price difference between the ST-1000 and Simrad TP-3000 is not that much, and I think the durability of the heavy duty unit unit would be worthwhile, expecially after the waranty period is over.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 16:42:20

Ric,

I have used a Raymarine ST2000+ autopilot on my 1979 C-25 for maybe 1,000nm, including hundreds of ocean miles. It has performed very well with one caviat. When its ram reaches full travel, there are no limit switches. Yes, this is a really dumb design feature. It can result in the drive motor stalling in rough conditions or when auto-tacking, and then drawing much more electrical current than normal. If a fuse the correct size is used, there is a chance of blowing that fuse. What I did was to wire the autopilot through a dedicated circuit breaker located within semi-easy reach from the companionway. That way, I can get it going again quickly after an over current without other electrical items being affected.

Another point in favor of the heavier duty recirculating ball autopilots is that their higher ram trust allows them to be attached to the tiller closer to the pintle centerline than the stock spec. This speeds up their reaction time, increases their lock-to-lock rudder angle, and so reduces the likelyhood of the autopilot ram reaching full travel.

-- Leon Sisson

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John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2004 : 11:08:05

Still happy after 3 seasons of use with the st1000. I think the main thing to remember with an auto pilot is that you really have to be attentive even though the machine is taking some duties off your hands. I look at "Lucy" as a temporary reliever rather than a crew member who sails a watch. A visit to the head, a trip to the galley for a sandwitch or a cup of coffee. a change of clothing or a trip forward to furl the mainsail. She does a great job on long crossings under power where there is little to do but watch the compass.

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