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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

DOES THIS LOOK FAMILIAR

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/22/2004 : 23:42:40

Check this four month old rudder out. I think this may become a larger problem than initially thought. I know we have had a few like this and am wondering if one of Catalina's supplers are giving them an inferior product.

Has anyone other than me had sail numbers left off there mainsail? I never noticed it, but the General saw it today while we were drifting home after the wind quit.

Frog and The General

C250, Pretty Penny II, #743
FLEET 25
Coronado 15, M-Cube, #3316

Edited by - frog0911 on 02/23/2004 19:57:20

frankr
Captain

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256 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2004 : 08:06:52

Yes - very well - same port side - same saw toothed cracking. The strange thing is - it cracks between the pintles an area that seems a low stress area. One would thing most the stress on a rudder is at the point of where the tiller attaches and down at the bottom end where the most leverage/flex occurs.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2004 : 09:15:01

Jerry,

Regarding your sail number, either it fell off or the sailmaker made a mistake. If you can find them, contact the place who made the sail and order the number you are missing. I just changed my numbers and I think I paid $5.00 each.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5904 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2004 : 09:39:24

Do you launch the boat with the rudder in place? I used to, but don't anymore, because it puts enormous stress on the rudder when the boat slides back off the trailer. For awhile, I used to lash the tiller centered, but don't even do that anymore. Now, I launch with the rudder in the cockpit, and attach it after I'm in the water. That might not be the cause of your problem, but I think it's a good practice in any event.

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2004 : 11:51:08

Jerry: That is amazing but not out of character for the product that Calalina now seems to be delivering to buyers of new boats. Hopefully your dealer will have a new rudder delivered to you and take care of the bottom paint for the rudder and deliver new sails or come to the boat and make the proper repairs on your sail...cosmetic or not those kinds of things shouldn't happen to a new boat...and it is also all the time it takes you to get things right that should have been right in the first place...I will take a look at my rudder the next time I get down to my boat...it would have been better if your rudder was damaged when your boat was delivered, as mine was, so it could be repaired before the boat went in the water....

Dan #727

Edited by - on

frankr
Captain

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256 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2004 : 12:36:44

My 250K #690 was launched with a boat launcher ( big 4 wheeled travelling hoist) - no strain on rudder. Mine seemed to develop cracks while sitting in the water. When I removed it to send back to Catalina I carefully examined it for any evidence of one of the neighbors might have clipped it or I sailed over some underwater object. I found no dents of even scratches in the bottom paint on it. I do have a E-Z Link connector to the outboard installed but there is no binding. Catalina fixed it with what appears to be more fiberglass to strenghten the area. If you look closely at the crack one can't even see any fiberglass filaments - it is difficult to crack fiberglass without showing some trace of fiberglass - maybe that is the problem - it wasn't glassed in the first place

Edited by - frankr on 02/23/2004 12:43:28

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2004 : 14:02:09

Pretty Penny II was launch with a 40 ton traveler and has not been out of the water since, so it is not a launching problem. When I looked at the crack close there is no glass structure only gel coat.
As for the sail number there is no evidence that a number was ever applied. Having used the stickey back before I always noticed that if you leave it on two or three days when you peel it off you are left with sticky glue residue. There is none on my sail. I have advised my dealer of the problems, but have not heard from him yet. Catalina is sending someone from Largo to repair my anchor locker and combing boxes so maybe he can do the rudder at the same time. Hopefully Catalina will have the sailmaker send the number and I can install it.
FrankR hit the nail I think. Everyone that has been posted is the port side sawtooth. Questions are: why in the first place and why only on the port side?

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2004 : 14:37:49

Yep, looks familiar. By the way Catalina builds these rudders.On my rudder the sawtooth is more regular, and a number of rows wide in some places which I think is indicative of some (glass?) fabric inside, but probably not enough....

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake

Edited by - Oscar on 02/23/2004 14:39:22

s3tbuell
1st Mate

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47 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2004 : 16:05:58

"Everyone that has been posted is the port side sawtooth. Questions are: why in the first place and why only on the port side?"

It looks like the picture is a wheel helm. Could this be the case on the others that have reported only a port side crack?

Edited by - on

frankr
Captain

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256 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2004 : 16:25:44

I just have a tiller.

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2004 : 17:17:22

Jerry: Have you asked Kent Nelson about the rudder problem? It would be interesting to know how many folks have had the identical rudder problem...maybe this is a "re-call" type situation due to a design or manufacturing defect. Where was your boat built? Mine was built in Woodland Hills, CA...it might be interesting to know if the rudder problems are manufacturing site specific...I don't know what legally constitutes a "design boating defect"...if it is only the gel coat, then it seems that there are a lot of gel coat issues with what Catalina is using...perhaps there was a formula change? Has anyone had this happen after the one-year warranty period and had Catalina go ahead and pay for the repairs? I'm sure "your" dealer will take care of this for you.

Dan #727

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2004 : 19:56:27

I can't even get an answer from Kent on what the part number is for the mast blocks they use on the C250, so I doubt if I can get the answer to the rudder problem. Penny II was built in CA also. I don't think they build the C250 anywhere else. I really don't know what they build in the Largo plant, but the keels for them come from CA. It will be interesting to see what my dealer has to say about it after he talks to Catalina. As you well know, they listen to the dealer before anyone else no matter what kind of evidence they are presented.

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2004 : 20:20:57

Jerry: If you need a "ghost writer" for a letter let me know....but they don't seem to read anything either...no matter how accurate it is...fortunately your dealer seems to have your boat in your best interest...but I am amazed that your rudder would come apart so soon...I wonder if there is any difference between salt water exposure compared to fresh water? It would be nice to get a list of all of the owners who have experienced "rudder cracks" and how long they owned their boat before the damage occurred. I will be seeing someone on Wednesday who might have some idea about the cracks and their cause...I will take your photos and ask some questions...will let you know what I find out....Dan #727

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2004 : 21:20:37

Mmmmmmmm/ Maybe you hull number is not 743, but 74?

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2004 : 22:12:51

Don: Always good to have someone put things in perspective

At least I did get all of the numbers on my sail

Dan #727

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2004 : 09:25:24

Well at least they got the numbers in the right place on the port side and I my SAILBOAT came with SAILS.
I would be very interested to here what the glass man in SAC has to say. It has been pouring here and I need to really look close at the crack to see if there is any glass or just gel coat. It appears to be just gel coat, but I did not drop the ladder so I could give it a proper examination up close and personnel.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2004 : 23:53:34

Surprise! Surprise! I received a EM from my dealer today and he wants to meet me at the St. Augustine boat show to exchange rudders. The last word I received from Catalina was that Bill Reed was going to repair it when he did the others. Seems Catalina agreed that the "Z" crack at the lower pintle is structual and they decided to replace it. Slowly but surely its staring to come together.

Edited by - on

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