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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

My wing keel is Done!!!

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/24/2004 : 08:31:44

Finally, after many nervous months of waiting, my swing to wing conversion is complete, and just in time for the Spring thaw! I hope to pick it up some time this weekend.

With everything else in the world though, things can't be simple. The person who installed the wing keel said the the back end of the wing keel, where it goes up into the keel trunk, wasn't flush with the bottom of the boat, but rather hangs down 3/4 inch from the bottom of the boat. He said he glassed it up and finished the job. Has anyone else who's done the conversion experienced this?

Please tell me I shouldn't be worried!

Thanks,

Ben
Beneteau 361
Viking Kitty
Columbus, Ohio

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2004 : 08:46:39

Hi Ben,

Welcome to the growing sWING group. I don't remember having such a situation develope it's been nearly ten years since my wing was hung. There shouldn't be a problem though. Just a cosmetic thing I should imagine. Once faired all will be well I'm sure. I do remember someone else remarking that his wing wasn't a drop in fit either. Recently also. Perhaps he'll post to you with some thoughts re his wing.

Best of luck...you'll love the wing.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2004 : 14:19:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ben
 . . . but rather hangs down 3/4 inch from the bottom of the boat. He said he glassed it up and finished the job. Has anyone else who's done the conversion experienced this?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ben, there's an entire blurb on this topic in Tech Tips - they had to do some fairing as well.

Congrats! Any pictures?

Edited by - OJ on 02/24/2004 14:20:20

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2004 : 16:19:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">his wing wasn't a drop in fit either. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Uh, oh! I don't to drop my wing onto my boat, that sounds harmful to the boat!

Seriously Ben, the wing is great and I'm sure when you've sailed her you'll agree! I didn't convert osmepneo the po did, and that is one project that was done well!

Edited by - on

jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2004 : 17:29:59

Hey Val,

Nice to hear your fingers once again. Miss your input on some of these threads.

Soon to be off the hard I hope. (whats the opposite of dangnabit?)

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
SF Bay

Edited by - on

cat30
1st Mate

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73 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2004 : 08:59:58

When we installed the wing on #285 the yard also said the aft portion of the keel was not a perfect fit- they had used 5200 for the sealant for most of the keel but used epoxy for the aft part. once it was faired- it was fine and we had no problems with it, and neither does the new owner

Edited by - on

Scotd
Navigator

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USA
136 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2004 : 09:15:10

Any Pictures?

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2004 : 13:01:14

Thanks All,

I'm glad this is not out of the ordinary and is only a cosmetic thing, if you can even call it that. I suppose the fish might snicker at me.

I wish I had pictures, but I don't yet. Hopefully I'll be able to pick her up this weekend, at which point I'll take mucho picturos.

Edited by - on

cch
Navigator

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202 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2004 : 14:42:10

Hi Ben,

We completed the swing to wing conversion this last fall and had the same situation you mentioned at the aft end of the new keel. One of the boatyard workers and myself glassed the area in and faired it all out. It was a fair amount of work but turned out fine. Don't be worried it will be fine. I am at work and pressed for time but I will post some photos as soon as I can (maybe tonight?)

I think you will love the new keel. We were out last Saturday and really enjoyed not having to raise and lower the keel, not to mention a bone dry bilge!!!!! Moonglade doesn't point quite as well in light air as she used to but I really like all other points of sail. The stronger the wind the more I like the wing keel. When we were doing the keel conversion we also replaced all the standing rigging and I don't quite have the rigging tuned yet to achieve the best pointing ability. Time will tell.

Once you a back in the water let us know what you think!

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2004 : 15:19:35

Thanks Chris. I'd appreciate the pictures. I'll definitly be letting ya'll know how much I like the wing. I might be able to splash down in just a couple weeks. Spring fever is hitting me hard!

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2004 : 15:35:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ben
 Thanks Chris. I'd appreciate the pictures. I'll definitly be letting ya'll know how much I like the wing. I might be able to splash down in just a couple weeks. Spring fever is hitting me hard!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hey Ben,

Don't forget to change your signature block to show you've now got a WING!

'Hope your splash goes great ... 'can't wait to hear how your "new" baby performs!

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2004 : 22:03:52

Thanks for the reminder, Buzz. I'll wait until I get my baby back. After waiting so long, I feel almost like I have to see it to believe it.

Edited by - on

cch
Navigator

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202 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2004 : 00:22:11

Here are some photos of the aft end of the keel in progress:

Edited by - cch on 02/26/2004 00:26:41

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2004 : 07:14:34

Thanks for the pics, Chris. I see the the aft end of your keel didn't go flush up into the keel trunk either. Maybe it was designed like that, perhaps letting the boat track better.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2004 : 11:33:44

sWINGERS,

All this concern about sloppy fit on wing retrofits had me at the boat yard this morning checking out what's-what. There were three sWINGS in all. Each was a cartbon copy of the other, and as depicted in the last of the pictures just posted. It seems it's as designed. The tail end skeg-like apendage runs from the wing back to the area where the cable exited the hull. I might have designed it that way as well...EHHH maybe not..probably would have it deeper into the water gaining more lateral resistance.

So have no fear they all seem to look alike. And probably exhibit the the same qualities as mentioned by cch.

Hi Jim W. Haven't a clue what dagnabit's alter ego is... too busy trimming sails to be concerned about it. Might/should be, thank you GOD.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2004 : 11:53:04

Thanks for checking on that and reporting it, Val.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2004 : 12:11:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jwilliams
 (whats the opposite of dangnabit?)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
BOO-YAH, baby!

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2004 : 14:25:36

Thanks for posting the pictures of the conversion! A long time ago I had a Venture 24 with a swing keel, and while it was great on inland waters, sailing in open waters always bothered me with so much weight able to "move".....

Has anyone done any "comparitive sailing" (NOT just racing, but sailing side by side to just watch for performance differences, etc.) between fins and wings for performance? I would expect off the wind there would not be a long of difference, with maybe the wing having a slight edge due to less wetted area, but closehauled the fin would have the edge?

What about righting moment? Seems to get the same righting moment the wing would have to weigh more, or have internal ballast to compensate, since the moment arm is less than a fin? Are the weight differences noticable?

Nice conversion!

Chuck

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2004 : 22:10:17

Chuck, for ten years I have been sailing against a fin C25 with my wing C25 and all your assumptions are pretty close. The fin would point up quite a bit better (10 degrees) and leave me in her dust, but on reach the wing would walk away. On a run we were about dead even except in very light air then the wing would pull away. I now have a new boat, C250 so it will be interesting on the river this year.
Great to have #1 on the forum and keep the stories and pictures coming.

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2004 : 22:01:15

Thanks Frog, No surprises then for the wing. Sure looks like a nice solution for trailering and shallow water!!!

Galveston Bay has a soft mud bottom, and a boat with a wing keel (not a catalina) was reaching fast and ran aground. The keel wings acted like the flukes of an anchor and it took quite a while to get them pulled out!!! <grin> Of course he was in water not much deeper than a heavy dew! I could not have gotten there except on a trailer!!!

Chuck

Edited by - on

gnorgan
Admiral

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USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2004 : 01:22:08

Hey, Ben, you'll like the wing. Ours is original and we love sailing it and don't worry much about the shallows in Mission Bay. This summer I plan on slowly nosing it up onto the beach like I did with the Prindle 16 we used to have (actually, we sailed it up onto the beach back then

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2004 : 07:22:34

Chuck,the wing retro on the C25 is modeled after the orginial Aussie wing heavy and strong. Penny was run aground on purpose at least three times a year for bottom cleaning. At high tide I would drive her toward shore as fast as I could until she grounded. Then hand carry the anchors out, for and aft, and set them. Low tide would come and she be high an dry, standing straight up, except for the last 24". I then scrape the bottom, including the keel, wash and wax the hull, pick up the anchors, take off the rudder and at high tide crank up the engine spin the boat around about four times and drive her back into deep water to the dock. The times of accidential grounding was basically the same, take off the rudder, spin her around and drive out the way you came in. I will not try that with the new boat since the wing is a blade with small thin wings and I am not to sure it can handle the forces of the spin. Best of all the retro only drafted 34".

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2004 : 18:21:30

Jerry,

Sounds like a GREAT way to clean the hull!!!! Houston/Galveston Bay does not have much in the way of diurnal tides (maybe 6" to 12" max usually). Most of our water depth changes are due to winds blowing the water in or out of the bay.

-c-

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by frog0911
 Chuck,the wing retro on the C25 is modeled after the orginial Aussie wing heavy and strong. Penny was run aground on purpose at least three times a year for bottom cleaning. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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