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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Moving Up - Maybe

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tgrass462
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/07/2004 : 10:13:54

We are the proud owners of a 1980 vintage Catalina 22 here in St. Louis. Our local dealer just took delivery of a 1995 Catalina 250 WB (I don't know if it's a tall rig or not). Heretofore I've been thinking about the classic Catalina 25 as the next step up ... but the idea of 1500 # of cast iron kind of scares me. My wife really likes the 250 - and we think the WB will allow us to trailer it.

Some questions.

1. In general - is a mid -90's 250 WB a good boat? (Any unpublished problems or issues with this vintage that I should be concerned about?)

2. On paper - the towing weight of the 250 WB compares closely to what I'm pulling now (~2,400 # plus the weight of the trailer). Fact or fiction?

3. Wow - that mast looks tall. I can single rig my '22 mast (when I can't anymore - I'm too old to sail ...) - don't think I can with the 250 mast. How does the Catalina 250 mast raising system rate? (My dealer - sells both Catalina & Hunter ... he says that the Hunter's system on the 240 for example is vastly superior). What do you all think? Will I be able to single rig the 250 mast with the Catalina mast raising system?

4. How does the 250 WB sail?

5. What problems will we probably be facing with a 9 year-old boat? (For example - it the rudder a problem? Is the stock rigging from Catalina robust enough? How maintenance prone is the retractable dagger board system and the Water Ballast fill/empty system?)

6. What's a good way to establish a fair sales price for such a boat?

7. This boat did not have stern pulpit seats (as we've seen on newer 250 models). Does anyone know whether CD or anyone else sells these as options.

8. The Catalina 22 NSA has a pretty active cruise group (Ky Lake, Great Lakes, Gulf Coast, etc.). Does the Catalina 25 user community have anything similar. (p.s. They DON'T have anything approaching the quality of this forum however!)

Thanks for your help.

Tom Grass
9309
Grasshopper

Edited by - on

zebra50
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2004 : 11:11:26

Tom

I have a 98 WB from same dealer. Bought it new it came with teh stern seats. I know you can purchase them, have you asked the dealer? The only major problem I have had with the boat was the leaking into the bilge from the ballast through bolt. This has been discussed in the forum previously. I would be happy to show you my fix.

We also sail at Carlyle, out of Boulder Marina. May move to the new Keyesport next year to save travel time from St Louis.

The 2400# is on the low side. I believe someone here mentioned it to be more in the area of 3200+#. I use my Explorer with a class 3 hitch and it is just about maxed out with the boat and trailer+ gear.

My boat came with the beaching rudder (2nd generation?) which the dealer (same) bolted through to mount the Edson steering. This week end I finally took it apart and remounted the plate with flush mount screws so now I have the kick up option again.

The only problem I have had is with backing out of the slip when the wind is from the stern. I have had to manually use the OB to assist in steering. That will be corrected soon as I will be installing the EZ Steering unit.

I have no problem in raising or lowering the main sail I even added a lazy jack to help in the lowering. The couple times I have had to raise and lower the mast I found it to be very easy. My trailer was equiped with the mast raising system. Just remember to tie off the main halyard so the harness doesnt slip. At Bolder the boat is in the water during the season and on the trailer in storage during winter. I have had to trailer only three times.

What harbor do you sail out of now? Be glad to show you my boat anytime. One advantage the keel has over the wb is head room.

I know that there are a number of 250s at boulder and probably at the other marinas. Feel free to email me at zebra50@rocketmail.com

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2004 : 11:38:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tgrass462
 We are the proud owners of a 1980 vintage Catalina 22 here in St. Louis. Our local dealer just took delivery of a 1995 Catalina 250 WB (I don't know if it's a tall rig or not). Heretofore I've been thinking about the classic Catalina 25 as the next step up ... but the idea of 1500 # of cast iron kind of scares me. My wife really likes the 250 - and we think the WB will allow us to trailer it.

Some questions.

1. In general - is a mid -90's 250 WB a good boat? (Any unpublished problems or issues with this vintage that I should be concerned about?)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Another source for an opinion is the [url="http://www.practical-sailor.com/pub/1_1/boatreview/1149-1.html"]Practical Sailor Review of the C250[/url].

Edited by - dlucier on 03/07/2004 11:40:16

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2004 : 12:11:22

Tom,
I also have a 1995 C250 WB, had it for almost three years now. In response to your questions. I do not raise the mast by myself, how ever there are threads on this forum with add-ons which will allow you to do it by yourself, I do rig the boat myself though. I have had no problems with the centerboard cable, I do however go under the boat a couple of times a year and inspect the attachment to the centerboard with the board down. I still have the original rudder which came with the boat, I am not an agressive sailor so the first generation rudder has worked with no roundups. Water ballast system gravity feeds itself and I blow the ballast out with a small vacumn cleaner in the fall before removing the boat. My boat has never been painted however it is slipped in clear, pristine waters in upstate N.Y. I do scrub the bottom a couple of times during the summer and wash and wax it in the fall. I have never weighed the boat but I do tow it with a Toyota Tacoma 4wheel drive truck. I must confess that the boat is completely empty except for the mast and boom when towing.
You can find a price in the NADA blue book for boats. I am sure there are other C250 sailors who will jump in with other observations....Good Luck... "Bear" on the SEMI-hard in upstate N.Y.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2004 : 12:41:39

1. There are some improvements over the years. None of the water ballast were tall rigs. The first 230 250s are water ballast. Yes, there were rudder issues and it should be determined which rudder is on the boat. A 1st generation will need upgraded. IMHO the most desirable for the water ballast boat is a 2nd generation beaching. Do a reasearch on this site for information on how to identify or email me.

A coaming step was added in '97, stern seats in '98, fresh water tanks were moved in '97 as well as addition of propane locker. New models dont have a full lexan hatch, new models have a hinged fiber glass fuel locker lid, etc. None of the upgrades deal with critical issues that would make previous models undesirable, unless the stern seats are an important issue... and with some effort and expense, they could probably be changed.

2. The weight figure has been revised to about 3450.

3. The '95-96 models used a stand alone gin pole and this was changed to a trailer pole in '97. The trailer pole in my opinion is a better system but requires the mast be raised of course on the trailer (normally anyway) and probably require two people, where the gin pole only one because its operated from on top of the boat. I'm not saying the trailer system wont work single handed, I'm just saying it probably requires a lot of climbing off and on to do and deal with shrouds. The gin pole however will work on the water for river travel and bridges ect. A very simple A frame built from 2x4s will do the job very nicely and thus mast raising issues are minor.

A used boat with the telescoping mast crutch and mast raising baby stays with it is important and even perhaps the original gin pole... but don't fret about the gin pole. Its easy to make an A frame and with it, the baby stays aren't important either.

4. The C250 will literally sail circles around the Hunter 240. The most serious sailing characteristic of the 250 is that a lot of heeling will induce weather helm and rounding up. This is mostly overcome however with the right rudder and trimming the center board aft to balance. The number two shortcoming is significant leeway in a blow. The boat is relatively light and has a lot of windage. In a strong breeze it experiences large tracking angles. What I'm saying is that when wind and waves are strong, the lay line is not on the beam... and instead of a tack track of 90 degrees, it will be more like 130.

Upwind performance in light to moderate winds is excellent... offwind in light air requires more than a 110 headsail so a pole is a necessity and a drifter sail is nice.

5. Many sailor will look at the rigging and think it too light. Not so. The 250 is not a heavy boat, and thus doesn't experience the loads that a heavy boat induces on rigging. The 250 doesn't fight the wind, its tender enough to give way to it.

Boat condition is not a result of how old but how well cared for. A boat kept clean and polished will endure better than one not maintained. Each has to be seen and evaluated. Newer boats will have benefits of production changes. Most production changes can be added. Some might not be wanted however, so an older boat will give some options. I've related two of those recently, I wouldn't upgrade to stern seats on my boat because the backstay bridle clearance is more important to me. I also wouldn't upgrade to the propane locker because the locker space is more important to me... but both of those are just me.

The center board system is fairly complex and amost everyone has experienced a few minor troubles with it including broken pennant cables and the need to shim the pin. Shimming the pin is not hard and replaceing the cable is not difficult if under water work is within your capabilities. I changed mine out two years ago and when age 55 and had no probems doing it under water. It can also be done on the trailer but requires jacking up the front of the boat to make clearance to remove the board... a half day effort.

The center board does not have the problems that a swing keel does. Dealing with loading / unloading ballast is no great shake. There might be times when unloading is helpful to getting the boat back on a trailer at a marginal ramp. Its no problem to use air to pump out the ballast by using an inflatable air pump.

6. A price is dependent on many things including condition and equipment. It would be very possible to pay more for an older boat than a newer year model if there are reasons. The trailer plays into the equation. A simple example... rebuilding the brakes on a trailer can be expensive. A trailer with working brakes is worth more than one where the brakes are not functioning. An earlier model boat with the fresh water tanks moved from the galley to the V berth for example would be worth at least 100 more. One with a wheel that has the original single cable system is worth less than one with the two cable upgrade. That upgrade cost $600. But, don't let it dissuade you, an open wire conversion kit can be had for $300 and its better IMHO than the two cable upgrade. I would certainly negotiate 300 off the asking price of any wheel steered boat that has a single cable.

7. I have not heard that the factory seats have been converted... but that doesn't mean that they haven't or couldn't be. Others may work.

8. The C25/250 association has not sponsored cruises. There are a number however of trailer and or other group cruises. I have found that sticking to one design is not important, and have participated in cruises at Pensacola and Great Lakes where a variety of trailer sailors get together. There are a great many of these events around the country... finding opportunity to sail in association with others is plentiful.

Yes, the 25/250 National Association has a good web site. I've heard it said a great many times that its the best $20 bucks spent on ones boat.

I've, along with many others in this association have owned a C22. A c250 will open up a few more cruising possibilities beyond those of the venerable 22. IMHO, it is easier to launch, retrieve and set the mast than the 22 was. It pulls only slightly harder but is a better trailered boat because it comes on a more robust trailer with brakes and two axles. I trailer from Texas to the Great Lakes every summer. When I committed to doing that, the c22 wasn't the right boat... the c250 has served that purpose very well and has given me six of those cruises so far.

Remember, all boasts should have a survey done to asses their condition unless one is very savvy about boats. Good luck in your search.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2004 : 17:22:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 Remember, all boasts should have a survey done to asses...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
True for fishermen, sailors, and politicians.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2004 : 19:44:32

I think I've been had

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2004 : 20:12:22

Hmmm, isn't there a blooper page somewhere? Thanks for all the typing Arlyn.....when I was reading all the questions I was hoping you'd been here first!

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake

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