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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Catalina Direct discontinues "Mast Up"

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StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/13/2004 : 11:47:38

I called yesterday to order a stern mast crutch and the guy on the phone said they were out of stock. I asked him when they anticipated more in. He fumbled around on his computer then told me that out of stock sometimes means they will no longer be carrying the product but not always. He really gave me the feeling he new little about what he was doing so I asked him to check with Lowell. He told me that Lowell was extremely busy and there was just no way. I tried to explain to the guy that I needed to know when they would have them again because if they were in fact discontinued I would need to start looking elsewhere. He dug back into his computer and started mumbling bits and pieces of what he was seeing. Mast raising system for 300 odd dollars. Hey! I'm interested in that one. Do you have a C25 '9? or newer? Well no, mine is a '84 model. Well...this won't work for you. Is there anything for a '84 model? No. He finally told me they would no longer carry the mast up...ever.

Lowell, if you're reading this, get some knowledgable help. The gains in customer service are huge if the phone rep knows what he's speaking off. And by the way... bring back the mast up.

Anyone have detailed plans for a homemade mast crutch?

Fair winds,

Andy, Breakin' Wind, 1984 C25 SK SR

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 12:02:45

What is the CD mast raising system? Is it a mast crutch?

Being the frugal guy that I am, I've made a mast crutch from a 2 x 4 and a V made of scrap plywood which is then lashed to the stern rail.

If I wanted to use the rudder gudgeons for the mast crutch, I would probably get a couple of rudder pintles and attached them to another pole-like object.

I've also considered using a spinnaker pole in some way to use as a mast crutch.

Edited by - on

StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 12:12:25

He couldn't tell me what a mast raising system included. He told me there is only so much he could tell from the computer.

Again, knowledgable staff makes the phone ordering system a more satisfying experience.

I guess I will go find a 2x4 and try to figure this out myself unless anyone has specific lengths, drawings or photos to assist. I really hate reinventing the wheel. I went to Lowes last night and bought all the pieces to make the A-frame per Bears Abode specifications.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 12:31:36

still don't have my spreader sockets from CD and it's been 3 weeks.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 13:37:01

The mast-up saga:
When I called CD several months ago I also got a semi competent response but the fellow asked if I would like to talk to Lowell. I said sure, (I always admired his travelogs at the movies), anyway, he said that they get them from a fellow who is kept at capacity building them for the 22 and that the supplier had told him he would no longer fill orders for the 25 specific item. Lowell then assured me that the 22 worked just fine and the difference had to do with how they were supported in the fully up position. He said that all I would need to do is run some lines from my winches to the mast-up to provide the support needed to handle the mast being rolled back on the roller while putting the mast up. I said ok and $200 and change later I got my mast-up. I used it the other day and it really did help a lot.

Moral; Ask for the 22 Mast-Up.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 15:06:28

Two points:
I am using my C22 mast up (I didn't include it in the sale). the support pintles are smaller than the gudgeons on the 25. I got some plastic shims, or maybe they were called spacers) from Lowes and slipped them on the mast up pintles. Works great. Measure the diamater of your c22 mast up pintle, and the pintle of your 25 rudder, and then convert it into a decimal of an inch to get the right size.

As far as Catalina Direct goes, I have been a loyal fan of theirs for the last 4 years. I always ask for Lindsey, she is as smart as they come, and if she doesn't know an answer, she will put you on hold and find out. She recognizes my voice and calls me by name, so I guesse I am spending way too much money with them. But Lowell has gone above and beyong for me more than once, and am a big fan of theirs. They do sometimes hire a rookie, and you have to work with them if Lindsey isn't there, but whatever consideration I have given them has been repaid back many times over.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 15:06:54

Edited by - on

Scotd
Navigator

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USA
136 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 18:03:24

Does anyone have any good pictures of the mast up? The weight of the mast is not supported on just the gudgeons?

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 18:24:00

Yes, the mast is supported on the Gudgeons alone when you are using the Mast Up. I mounted the Heavy Duty Gudgeons offered by Catalina Direct.
When I trailer my boat I set a 2 x 4 across the rear pulput and carry the mast on it, not the mast up.
The beauty of the Mast up is to be able to raise the mast some prior to raising it (now that is a stupid statement, but you know what I mean) and having the roller on it makes it easy to move the mast back in order to set the mast pin.
I can raise and lower my mast myself, using the Mast up, and an A frame.

Edited by - on

StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 19:01:21

OK, so the 22 mast up is virtually the same except for the pintles? I wonder why the guy at CD didn't tell me so. I spent the afternoon at Lowes buying parts to build my own.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 19:57:24

I think that the 25 mastup is made with heavier tubing too. Tomorrow I'll go out and see if the manufacturer's sticker is still on the thing, and I'll see if I can get you an address
The 25 mastup was more expensive than the 22 too, so there were obviously some differences. I didn't think it was worth my while to build one myself.
I did replace the roller with one of those clear plastic non marking rollers as the black roller made marks on my mast.

Edited by - on

StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 20:09:35

Thanks Frank!!!

Looking forward to reading the information. I would surely like the stronger one if I can find it.

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

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USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2004 : 20:18:09

I bought a mast up from the "Mast UP" company.
Not CD.

I'll snoop around the web and see if I can find them.

Here is a link to another "Mast Up" product. It's different from the one that fits on the gudgeons.

http://www.swartsart.com/Mast-UP/index.html

PW

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 00:30:07

I bought a couple of sizes of square tube stock at OSH, one fit in the other, and about 1.5 feet of angle iron and some 1/4" rod - I think that was the size. The rod made pintles and a pin to hold a roler I got at west marine. Drew up a rough sketch from what I saw in the CD catalog and my neighbor welded it together for me. Works great but I would use a little heaver tubing next time. I find that I definitly need to run a couple of lines to the jib cleats to keep it from pushing back. The last time I used it I had a little trouble with some side to side swaying.

Edited by - on

rford
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 00:56:48

I have a good mast raising system from my previous owner but need a mast crutch for trailering and storage... Some of the writers/owners above mentioned wooden options for this. I'd like to see pictures of these options as well as other possible suggestions for a mast crutch.

Thanks

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 06:47:15

A "Mast Up" as sold by Catalina Direct, and the Mast up company is not an A frame. Two different things. The latest link is an A frame, and the guy is calling it a mast up.
In my opinion, if you are going to single hand mast raising, especially a tall rig,you need both. Of course some folks have an extented tower on their trailer and a winch to raise their mast, but I don't.
As far as the wooden support to hold my mast when trailering, it is merely a piece of 2 x 6 tied across the rear pulpit, side to side and the mast sits on it. Tied down with rope. Simple.

Edited by - on

John J.
Navigator

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USA
157 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 06:58:41

I just clicked on to the Mastup link. At the risk of sounding stupid, How does this thing work? From the picture on the website, it appears this guy is just lifting the mast with his bodystrength. It also mentions the device is used for masts up to 70 lbs. My mast weighs a hell of alot more than that. By the way ,how much does a mast on a tall rig weigh?

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

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USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 09:12:45

Hey John,

That's a great observation about the weight of the mast. I was told the Cat-25 mast weighed 200 lbs. I don't know if that is correct. Maybe someone on the forum knows for sure what the weight is.

The Mast Up link I posted is not the Mast Up the thread is talking about. Just another mast raising product.

Here it is. I dug it out of my garage.

Mast Up
Eugene, OR 97405
541-686-2666

PW

Edited by - on

StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 10:19:51

Did this Swarts guy get a patent or anything? I've already got the IRS looking me down, I don't need the U.S.Patent Service checking me out too.

I am interested in both products, both the mast crutch and the a-frame. I have built both this weekend but for what I paid in parts, I expect about the same in performance. Don't get me wrong, I've got mad tools, but for stuff like this I think it is worth it to buy the prethunk pretooled stuff. No offense to the duct tape fans but when it comes to parts like this I'd rather have something slick that doesn't require duct tape to hold together or in place.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 11:19:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by StSimon
 Did this Swarts guy get a patent or anything? I've already got the IRS looking me down, I don't need the U.S.Patent Service checking me out too.

I am interested in both products, both the mast crutch and the a-frame. I have built both this weekend but for what I paid in parts, I expect about the same in performance. Don't get me wrong, I've got mad tools, but for stuff like this I think it is worth it to buy the prethunk pretooled stuff. No offense to the duct tape fans but when it comes to parts like this I'd rather have something slick that doesn't require duct tape to hold together or in place.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
When I modified a Mast-Up to sit on my old trailer jack stand post, I ask a neighbor who drives a cherry picker truck with a welder in the bucket to do it for me.

I asked him if the $200 and change I paid for it was OK and he said yes. He felt it represented a lot of engineering time to get it right and the parts were exactly what they needed to be.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 03/14/2004 12:30:35

StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 11:24:17

Frank,

I agree with your friend. Sure, home engineering is great, but I'd rather pay for someone else's trial and error and buy a piece that is right.

How about some closer shots of the three pieces holding your mast?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 12:59:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by StSimon
 Frank,

I agree with your friend. Sure, home engineering is great, but I'd rather pay for someone else's trial and error and buy a piece that is right.

How about some closer shots of the three pieces holding your mast?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Go here, there are several pages of stuff, use the slide show for better resolution. The center post is a plastic 4x4 fence post with strategic slices in it so it will fit well on the step.

http://homepage.mac.com/fhopper/PhotoAlbum24.html

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 14:02:40

In response to a variety of comments/questions. IMHO disclaimer.

I'd say the C25 Mast is ca. 75-85 lbs. One reasonably fit person can lift and carry it. (However, handling is a bit clumsy due to it's length).

The "Mast Up" doesn't lift the mast for you, it is merely an extending mast crutch that holds the mast up at about a 20 degree angle when in it's fully extended position. This helps get the mast started off the 'dead center' flat resting position and gives the wincher a better mechanical advantage. You lower the mast up for trailering. I suppose one coult fit some sort of spring assist inside, although I haven't found it to be needed.

Mast up is pretty simple stuff, two telescoping pieces of square tubing, pin-holes drilled through for adjustment and with a couple of mounting brackets with pins that fit in the transom gudgeons.

IANAL but I believe that you can make anything you want (patented or not) for your own personal use.

By the time a local fab shop would be finished with the drilling, welding etc. + materials, you'd be... pretty darn close to the $200 pricetag. Only way to beat the price is to build one yourself.

Edited by - on

frich
Captain

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USA
418 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2004 : 17:43:42

Check out the crutch I made out of PVC pipe, prob find it in the archives under "mast crutch"

If you cant find it send me an e-mail at frich1230@optonline.net I will foward photos and dimensions

Frank R
84 C25 SK

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2004 : 18:53:53

First off I want to thank this forum and the person (I think it was Frank) for posting photos of the transom hung mast up. With the photos I was able to go to my local hardware store and for $7.99 I purchased two 5' long pieces of square tubing that will slide within the other. I can weld and have the equipment in my home shop (lucky me). I put my mast up together in under an hour. I then realized that a roller would be grand. Called West Marine, two days later and $7 later my clear rubber roller arrives. Another hour and some paint, presto chango, $15 bucks (0.15 boat units) and I have a perfectly adequate piece of equipment. Just so I don't step on any patent rights, I went ahead and improved the design by adding a simple bracket at the same level as the transom cross bar. Now when you roll the mast back the bracket catches on the cross bar and prevents the torque on the pintles. Yahoo!!!! My wife and I stepped the mast as we went back into the lake last week end and with the new 'A' frame combination we had the mast up from the moment I stopped the truck until we backed down the ramp in 45 minutes.. A record and no pulled muscles, bad language, or damaged digits. Thanks for all the info, the info I picked up here has made the mast stepping a non issue for me.

I will take photos of the unit tonight and get them posted tonight.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2004 : 00:58:48

Good on ya Ed

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