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Bob3589
1st Mate

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31 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/14/2004 : 16:46:10

Around the end of May, I am going to be moving my C25 from Pensacola, Florida to Pickwick Lake in Tennessee so it will be closer to my home and i can sail more often (the 8 hour drive is getting to be too much). It's a fin keel and i don't have a trailer. I will be motoring it up the Tombigbee Waterway - about 450 miles.
I have two questions:
1. I'll be using the motor about 10 hours per day. Should i be very concerned with the motor overheating ?? (i have a 2003 Honda 4 stroke).
2. I'll be going against the current so i am figuring on about 4-5 miles an hour - 40-50 miles per day. My motor is on the starboard side. If i put another 5 to 9 horsepower motor 2 stroke on the port side (rig a bracket out of 2x4's or 2x6's on the ladder) --- with both motors running at the same time about half throttle -- would that increase the speed of the boat going thru the water ???
I know that sounds crazy but someone asked me that question and i don't know the answer.
Thanks for any input.

Bob, C25/3589/FK/TR.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 17:15:54

Bob: Your limit (hull speed) is about 6.3, regardless of what you hang on the transom. Realistically, 5 to 5.5 is about as fast as you want to cruise, which should be around half throttle on your Honda. Every tenth above that is wasting gas and mostly just adding noise. Currents are immaterial--the limit is the speed you can travel through the water. Against a 1 knot current, you're limited to a max of 5.3 knots over the bottom, and a realistic cruising speed of 4.5. More hp won't change that, unless you're talking about 50.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/14/2004 17:16:32

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 19:38:36

If the cooling system on your motor is in good shape you shouldn't have any troubles with extended operation. A few minutes after startup it will reach it's designed operating temperature and stay there indefinetly.

After all, there's plenty of nice cool water handy to pump through it!

As Dave pointed out, adding power to a C25 really won't make it go any faster... (perhaps short of bolting a big block V-8 in the cockpit). As you add power a displacement hull just starts digging a bigger hole in the water... up to the point where things would get a little crazy.

All in all, your trip sounds like a great adventure to me. Take pictures !

Edited by - on

seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 20:23:14

Many years ago (1973) we brought a 14' Grampien sailboat through the Erie Canal, running the 6hp Johnson upwards of 8 hours a day. No overheating problems then. Your motor is new and has the advantage of greater efficiency borne of newer technology. You shouldn't have to run your engine flat out either. I find I run my 1987 Evinrude 9.9 at about half throttle to reach hull speed of 6 knots in relatively calm lake waters. Even against a modest current, I wouldn't expect you to exceed 3/4 throttle with your motor. Good Luck!

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 21:42:10

Bob - A Honda 8hp or 9.9hp motor in good condition will move your boat at hull speed at about half throttle, any more than that just wastes gas, as Dave and ClamBeach pointed out. The most important thing on an extended cruise is to keep an eye on the coolant teltale (that stream of water that squirts out under the rear of the powerhead), and monitor the crankcase oul level, checking it every couple of hours until you are sure the engine isn't consuming or leaking oil. If it looks good, no leaks, check and top off the oil every time you refuel.
If the stream of water coming from the teltale drops off or starts spurting, stop the motor and correct the problem immediately. It is either a plugged coolant intake or coolant passage, thermostat malfunction, or the water pump has shed some vanes and needs to be replaced. Before taking off on a cruise like you are proposing, you need to buy a spare water pump impeller at a Honda dealer, and know how to replace it, and carry at least one spare fuel line connector so that if the o-ring fails, you don't drip gass all over the waterway. You can't replace this o-ring, believe me I've tried. Just replace the whole connector ($6.00 most marine stores will have them). The water pump impeller is about $20.00.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 23:21:07

Nothing more to add... just want to echo what the others have said and that fooling with another motor is an idea without merit.

I also agree with Dave's suggestion about speed. While our hulls are capable of 6.3 knots under motor, the last knot takes in the range of 50% of the power and fuel needed to reach the first 5.3 knots. So, a good cruising speed is about a knot less than hull speed. This of course will be reduced by the current if measured by a gps.

Have fun, take notes and pics and be sure to share your story of the cruise.

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 23:35:56

I sometimes run my Yamaha 9.9 HARD for hours on end to make headway upstream in the Columbia River or in the San Juans sometimes. NO PROBLEM!

In my opinion, you should NOT be afraid of running your Honda at nearly full throttle for hours on end, IF a GPS (borrow one if you have to) suggests that you are making speed gains OVER THE BOTTOM that justify increased fuel usage. What some of these guys may not realize (if they are lake sailors) is that you must make 1 knot just to stay in the same place! A knotmeter speed of 5 knots may be easy to idle along with on the engine, but you are only going to make 4 on the GPS. Running at 6 knots will mean you'll actually be making 5 on the GPS, a gain of 20%, which will save you HOURS on the water.

I say....let 'er RIP. These are GREAT engines (how'd we get to calling them "motors" anyway...aargh....; I have a "motor" in my washing machine!). I am confident you will do no damage, provided she's been broken in properly. Have fresh oil; fresh lower unit oil, take spare plugs/impeller if you want, gas line if you want, and GO FOR IT! Have a ball.....and do not worry.

BTW: They are very correct: more horsepower will NOT take you much, if any, over 6.3 knots......

Gary B.
Vice Commodore
s/v Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2004 : 00:03:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary B.
 These are GREAT engines (how'd we get to calling them "motors" anyway...aargh....; I have a "motor" in my washing machine!). Gary B.
Vice Commodore
s/v Encore! #685 SK/SR
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I doubt you have noticed but I never call them motors, I always call them engines. Teaching science often puts one at odds with vernacular speech. You cannot believe how many high school students still think we are talking about gasoline when we use the word "gas". And no, it doesn't do any good to explain it to a lot of them. Believe me, by high school they have heard it before!

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2004 : 00:37:36

Frank, I believe it! I taught high school for 25 years.....now I am at a small private college. It's AMAZING what they don't know, as well!

I think our ages are showing, Dude..........creak....groan.....;)....I gotta "bounce" now.....headin' for the "crib"......

Gary B.
Vice Commodore

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2004 : 12:43:00

Bob:

Another thought -- you may want to bring along the 2-stroke...not to go faster, but for extra peace of mind on such a long trip by having a backup available in case the Honda has problems (need proper fuel hookups for the backup).

Edited by - RichardG on 03/15/2004 12:45:36

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2004 : 13:59:31

I may sound like an old nautical f..t here but may I clear something up...... motors, engines on land it makes no difference to me, but on the water it is another thing. There are Steamships and there are motorvessels. any vessel driven by steam, has an engine and any vessel driven by internal combustion has a motor. confusion begins when you make your way down to the engine room to find a diesel driving this motor vessel. I know that Great Lakes captains are particular and will be specific on the radio as in "This is the motor vessel Edwin Gott....." or "This is the steamship Lee A Tragurtha..." Certain nautical conventions are inviolate so what I hang on the back of my sailing vessel is an auxillary motor.

BTW early and late model Honda motors will run forever. I have an 84 4st. 9.9 and it runs like a charm. 60-70 mile days when the North Channel is glass smooth.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2004 : 16:57:12

Motor sailed osmepneo from Huntington, LI, NY to Nyack, NY between 40 and 50 miles. The one good thing about the Honda was that day it ran and ran and ran and ran. Time and distance should be no problem for your adventure Bob.

It sounds like a good fun experience. Can you do it with the mast up or will you have drop the stick to clear low clearance bridges? If you get to keep it up, any chance to sail part of the trip?

Love to see pics of the trip.

Edited by - on

Bob3589
1st Mate

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31 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2004 : 17:34:07

Thanks to all for the input. I will take an extra 2 stroke motor as an insurance item plus extra oil and other spare parts for the Honda. There's one stretch of 200 miles through non-populated area where there is only one small gas/bait shop at the 115 mile point. My Honda has never given me any problems but there is always a first. I'll feel better with a backup. I heard a story about a guy who was out a large tow bill when his motor quit on him about 75 miles up that stretch. I have reviewed all the Corps of Engineering charts and talked to people who have made this trip and i can leave the mast up. All the fixed bridges and wires have a vertical height of at least 50 feet. There are 2 railroad bridges that will raise for boats. I might be able to sail on some of the longer straight stretches but the channel is too narrow to do much tacking if the wind isn't just right. Also have to watch out for tow barges and other boat traffic in a narrow channel.
I'll do a post-trip report and try to add some pictures. (i'll have to buy a digital camera first).
Thanks again for the help.
Bob.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2004 : 20:52:37

Bob: Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but of course that 2-cycle needs premixed gas, so another fuel line fitting is not the only requirement for changing over. For that barge traffic, be sure to keep the VHF tuned in to their channel. Around here, the commercial channel is 13, but I don't know about inland rivers. If a tug captain wants you to do something, you want to know about it right away! Be respectful and deferential--you are one of many annoying obstacles in their work day. It may not be a bad idea, on a river, to contact them as soon as you see them and ask what they want you do do. Others here may be able to speak to that based on more experience with river traffic.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/17/2004 20:54:48

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