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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/21/2004 : 16:13:21

OK, my 10 year old North main tore last night - very small 1 inch, just inside the boltrope near the mast gate when cranking in a reef. A little fabric was caught in the slot. The single line reefing system pulls the foot of the reefed main hard to the stern. The fabric that was caught split apart from the boltrope. No big deal, I can fix with some sail tape, but this sail is getting pretty tired (no crisp feeling at all). Its 10 years old and I sail every day.

I can't find a used main anywhere. If I was going to consider a new main, what features are important? I want a high performance cruising sail capable of winds to 30+ and will last for years.

Since I am sailing in all weather and planning some offshore trips, I would like 2 reef points on my standard rig. Anyone else do this? Is the second reef worthwhile? Perhaps I can buy about a 90% used storm jib somewhere to go with it.

I like the feel of the boat with reefed main and 110 jib in heavy air (much better than main alone, or with reefed main alone the boat won't point).

Want slides, ready to get rid of the boltrope. Stainless or nylon?

I want tell tales on the leech and in the belly of the sail, what about draft stripes? I want a Catalina 25 logo.

Would like the outhaul. I use this often.

Full batten, loose foot worth while (considering my needs)?

I've never used my flattening reef (current sail is shelf foot with flattening reef).

I have no lines run for a cunningham.

Don't need sail numbers. Not planning to race (formally).

What weight of dacron ?

Operating under a very tight budget.

Indiscipline 1978 FK SR #398

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2004 : 16:14:48

Oh yeah, not much doubt here, but I'll go with Ullman Ventura.

Edited by - on

Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2004 : 16:49:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 Oh yeah, not much doubt here, but I'll go with Ullman Ventura.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good Choice! Just what I was going to suggest but I'm sure you'll get more responses on this.
A main with everything you're asking about, loose foot, full battens, 2 reef points, telltales on the leach but not in the belly, no draft stripes, extra roach, without hitting the backstay, Catalina logo w/numbers (no extra charge), at I believe 6.5 oz., all for a grand total of $734 wo shipping. One of the best investments I've made so far!
Just ask for Gary, he usually is the one who answers the phone anyway.
His number is 1.800.248.2892
You wont be sorry!

CVick
PanaceaII '81 C25 #2439 SRSK
Fort Smith, AR

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2004 : 17:08:39

sounds like a great price. I'll have to work on Spike. Perhaps I can buy her an epee.

Edited by - on

frogger
Navigator

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USA
184 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2004 : 17:16:57

I just replaced my sail slides (slugs) with nylon ones. Originals were plastic. I put just a little silicone grease on each one and they worked beautifully. I purchased them from Sailnet.

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2004 : 20:27:47

Jim:

re: 2nd reef point -- Since you are on a "very tight budget", you should ask yourself how many times since you owned your boat that you wished you had a second reef point and compare that with the additional cost of getting it. For comparison purposes, I'd speculating that we sail in similar conditions (cruising/not racing), but you sail more days than I, but my sails on average go further off shore and are overnight. I'd also say that only maybe 3 times in the last 5 years I wished I had a second reef, but I may be more of a fair weather sailor than you, often due to having wife and young children along on overnight trips. Further, there seems to have been more really good sailing days (nice, but not really stormy) this winter than average. Because of all that, I really don't regret too often not getting the second reef point. But the additional value of the times you've wished you could reef further, plus the additional freedom you wish to go out in more stormy conditions, vs. the cost of the additional reef may be greater to you. However, your comfort level may be different than mine -- but it sounds like your tolerance to all conditions is increasing as you gain more sailing experience. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, but I think your decision on this should be based on the experience you have already had, plus on what further experiences you want to have, both weighed against the additional cost.

However, I would definitely recommend a loose footed main because I can be pretty confident that I effectively use the outhaul much more now (probably every time out) than when the foot boltrope was locked in the boom. I don't think it costs a lot more on a new sail -- on my unofficial loose-footed main, I simply removed the boltrope and had a much bigger, all-stainless slug attached to the clew.

As for a used storm jib, you may want to check with the Minneys web site -- perhaps others with more knowledge than I may be able to suggest a relatively inexpensive working jib from a smaller boat that would work well as a storm jib on your boat.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2004 : 21:58:23

A J-24 110 is a great 80% on our boats. That is not a storm sail but a good high wind sail. These sails are EVERYWHERE, you should be able to get a used one very cheap, (mine was free).

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2004 : 22:17:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">you should ask yourself how many times since you owned your boat that you wished you had a second reef point<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How many times would I have I wished I was wearing a life vest had I not had one? Never. Certain things you make sure you have, even if you never use them for their intended purpouse. IMHO the ability to make way in unexpected heavy winds is a safety issue. Being able to set a small amount of canvas is a necessity. Call it insurance.

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2004 : 23:18:45

I really like my UK Sailmakers loose-footed main and it didn't cost too much...

Last spring I came across someone near me who was literally having a fire sale on some sailing gear from his C25 (his boat fell victim to a marina fire). Originally, I was just interested in his asymetrical spinnaker, but he offered me all his gear that survived the fire for one bulk rate. After looking over his stuff, it took me all of two seconds to accept the deal.

After selling off the excess sails, stove, pop top cover, and a few other odds and ends, I was left with a new asymetrical spinnaker w/chute scoop and sheets, and a practically new UK C25 mainsail all for a net price of...$80.00!

Somebody pinch me!

Edited by - on

takokichi
Captain

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USA
321 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2004 : 08:53:11

I have two reef points in my main (Doyle, full batten) and use the second reef regularly. In winds over 20 ~ 22 knots I sail with the second reef and my 135 reefed down to equivilant of a working jib. In Maine early and late season is all about big air. On my old main, the first reef point wasn't enough for big wind days.

The cost is minimal, the effect substantial. I'd do it.

Justin

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5914 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2004 : 11:01:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Operating under a very tight budget.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Jim, your North mainsail with shelf foot was pretty close to state-of-the-art for small boats 10 years ago, and it's still an excellent sail. All sailcloth looks alike, but North has always used first quality, tightly woven sailcloth, and it is very durable.

In 1980, I bought the first set of sails that North ever built for a C-25, and My mainsail had a shelf foot and flattening reef, like yours, and they were fast. I replaced my mainsail about 2 1/2 years ago, after I tore holes in two batten pockets. Until that time, the sail was still very fast. I could have repaired my mainsail and used it awhile longer, but thought that, after 20 years, the stitching was probably deteriorated all over, and the frequency of repairs would probably increase.

Ten years isn't really that old for good quality sails, unless they have had an extraordinarily hard life, and the manner in which you tore the sail doesn't necessarily indicate that the sailcloth is deteriorated.

If economics is an issue, don't be too quick to give up on the sail just because of a one inch cut.

Most C-25s don't have a second full reef because their owners don't let themselves get caught out in conditions that require a second reef. The only time you should need it is if you anticipate that you might get caught by surprise, and that's a judgment call only you can make. I sail on an inland lake, and it is such a short distance to my slip that I don't feel a need for a second reef. If you sail far enough offshore that you might get caught in sudden bad weather, then you should definitely have a second reef. The wiser course is to not go out that far until you get a bigger, more robust boat that is really up to the task.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2004 : 12:44:09

I'm thinking of the 2nd reef because of my plan to sail solo to Santa Barbara Island this summer. The West end of Catalina is about 100 miles to windward from here, Santa Barbara Island is about another 25 from there. It's over 55 miles offshore. I expect very settled weather this August, but big winds can happen, especially out there. I would like to have the 2nd reef and a very small jib just in case.

I am also beefing up my anchor (I will have 3 on board for that trip). Plus anchor roll stabilizers, 90% jib, 110, 135 roller, 155 and spinaker. May leave the 155 home. Kayak and dinghy/outboard. Fishing stuff.

I've learned that my 25 year old Schaffer rolling furling will not reef the jib. If I roll it up even a little, and a gust hits, it just unrolls at the top, makes a big mess of the sail, and heels the boat. I've been taking it down and hanking on the other sails unless the wind is right for a 135 (which is most of the time). The boat is a lot more fun in big air with the 110 hanked on.

In winds around 20 with the 110 and a single reef sailing is really fun. I imagine I could handle 30 with a 90 and a double reef.

Of course, worst case, I can turn around and sail back downwind to Catalina Harbor. Even if its blowing like crazy I can probably still pole out my 135 and simply cruise back.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2004 : 12:46:49

By the way, I sailed last night and couldn't even notice the tear. It didn't really cut all the way through. Only pulled the cloth apart due to the strain of the reef and the fold of cloth caught in the kerf (that's the name for the mast slot, right?)

Is it worth $200 to have this sail reconditioned and re-coated? I have another main I could use while it is out.

It's not crisp at all but not rotted either.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5914 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2004 : 14:13:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Is it worth $200 to have this sail reconditioned and re-coated?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> It depends on what you can get done for your $200. The only reconditioning I would suggest is to have the seams re-stitched. I had that done on my old North 155, and it only cost about $45. I wouldn't have the sailcloth re-coated, to try to replace the sizing and make them stiffer. First, I've been told that they can't replace it as it was when new, because heat has to be used to get it into the weave, and they either don't have the equipment to do it that way, or heat can't be used on old sailcloth. Based on what I've been told, reconditioning is a superficial process that won't be as good or last as long as you hope. Second, if you spend $200. on reconditioning, you're almost 1/3 of the way towards buying a new sail, and I think that makes it a false economy.

The sailcloth on my 20+ year old 110 and 155 have lost their stiffness, and they have lost an edge for racing, but they still make very good cruising sails.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2004 : 15:16:40

Found a used sail through this board that I am going to give a try, with 2 reefs. Good price. Looks like good condition (seller rates it a 7). Catalina original sail from 1985 but with little use. So it's Gary Swenson sail anyways.

I'll keep my North and other main as backups. Looking forward to going to sail slides instead of the boltrope. I ordered the mast gates from Joe.

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