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svmoxie
Past Commodore

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USA
331 Posts
Response Posted - 05/03/2004 :  09:45:30  Show Profile  Visit svmoxie's Homepage
El Ca Mean O
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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts
Response Posted - 05/03/2004 :  11:58:51  Show Profile
Don: I agree--I owned two VW/Audi products and won't do that again... One problem VW, Mercedes and BMW are having is that they don't seem to have figured out how to build their cars here (or in Mexico) as well as the Japanese have. Another is that, as as cultural thing, Europeans never worried much about having to fiddle with their cars. That's why Japan hammered VW, Renault, Fiat, and the assorted British makers here in the US. What I was pointing out is that the technical advancements over the past 30 years or so have not been from US makers--we've been copying them or just buying them. The Big Three engineers I worked with some years ago were frustrated that their companies mostly wanted them to show that the new technologies (which they didn't want to build) were bad ideas, and that smaller cars (which Detroit didn't know how to sell) were dangerous. I owned a front-wheel-drive Audi back in 1970, and my friends at GM couldn't believe how neat it was (or how fast it was). The rear crumple-zone literally saved our necks one day. Then GM brought out the FWD V8 Toronado with the belt drive... It was so front-heavy it couldn't turn on wet pavement. Later, to counter Mercedes, Cadillac brought out a diesel--a disaster.

The Europeans invented the technology, the Japanese showed them how to make it work, and now the Americans are buying it from both of them. Meanwhile European sales are dropping in the US, but we sell <i>nothing</i> (designed or built in N. America) in Europe and Asia.
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Waterboy
Navigator

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USA
204 Posts
Response Posted - 05/06/2004 :  04:17:13  Show Profile  Visit Waterboy's Homepage
re: Dave B's observations on reverse engineering and vehicle engineering improvements.

I've owned Toyota, Nissan, Saab, Volvo, Porsche (still have the 911 hehe) Chevy and Ford over the last 20 years. All have been great vehicles, all had their foibles as well. As for who 'invented' this-or-that first, I suspect the webs of parasitism and symbiosis quickly become complex enough to make arguing the point silly.

However, here's my 2 clams on cars:

Most Fun: the 911 Cabriolet, hands down ....
Best 60/70's muscle: Chevrolet, Ford if you had the $$
Best 'recent' all round sedan/wagon: anything Swedish

and my all time favorite ... the F150. I'm on my third. It's been family hauler, off-road explorer, moving van, motor home, and garbage scow. It's given spirited efforts at being sporty, but oh well. If I could have only one vehicle, it'd be the F150.

Greg, looking for a '2 clams' smiley ...
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jm
Captain

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Canada
290 Posts
Response Posted - 05/06/2004 :  09:33:54  Show Profile
talk about a tangental bunch of sailors - one mis-directed Honda Auto question, by some sweet young thing, and off we go.. The post count is getting up there.. I'd expect this kind of thread deep into the boating "off season" but don't y'all have work to do for splash day ? &lt;grin&gt;

Meanwhile, I'll add one to the post count.
I whole heartedly agree with Waterboy re: the Ford F150 - mine has the 4.9 L in line six, seven main bearings, so its more akin to a tractor engine than a truck. Add to Waterboy's list of errands - camping, tailgate partying, motorbike, ATV, snowmobile, wood, and appliance hauler, and the F150 (or any 1/2 ton pickup for that matter) is the ultimate utility vehicle.

And concurrence on the muscle cars. - I'd love a 396 Chevelle or a Pontiac GTO, but I wouldn't say no to a 70's Cuda's with a 440 six-pack either.

But I digress....

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.