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Factory Curtain Burners

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joegeiger
1st Mate

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USA
63 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/17/2004 : 09:37:50

I have the original 2 burner stove and discovered this weekend excatly what they mean by factory curtain burner. It seems that the alchohol seeps out of the valve and pools into the bottom of the stove causing a huge blue flame. The left burner eventually calms down and burns normally without any further flare-ups. However the right burner does not work properly. Is there a way to rebuild the valves? A new Origo stove is $300 (alot of boat units) and I'd like to see if there is a way to fix it before giving in to purchasing a new stove. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. -jg

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wmkoines
1st Mate

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56 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2004 : 10:16:42

I was thinking of gutting mine and replacing it with a Kenton Marine Express Portable Stove (saw in West Marine) Cost is $59.99 and runs on butane. I picture that I could build a cradle for it for in cabin use using the current spindled box and if I wanted to I could pull the unit out and cook on deck. Maybe someone can offer some better ideas. I am a low user of the stove (coffee, hot water is about it).

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Sid
Navigator

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129 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2004 : 12:06:54

I use the Magma out on deck/stern rail to heat water for coffee, soup, etc. No flame ups or heat in the cabin.
Sid

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2004 : 12:08:28

If you'd like to maintain the stove's original appearance, you might consider installing propane components . . . there's a recent post on this with photos.

http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6586

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2004 : 13:38:31

I sucked it up and bought an Origo dual burner stove before I went to the keys for two weeks. I'm glad I did as it works great. Heats a quart of water in no time. It really surprised me how fast. It's safe too. It also went a week without refilling, I filled it up anyways for the second week. You are right though, 300 bucks is a lot of money, but then what is the cost of a second or third degree burn, or for that matter, burning your boat? Propane on a boat scares me if I don't have all the required safety equipment, detectors, valves etc., which would cost more than 300 bucks.

Then there's the piece of mind with a lighter than air fuel, and if the alcohol does have a fire, you can put it out with water.

Priceless.

Thant's just my opinion, I may be wrong.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2004 : 14:40:51

Joe, obviously your stove needs some work, but they're really not hard to take apart, clean, and maintain.

The trick with pressurized alcohol stoves is to understand they DO NOT work like a Coleman white gas stove. A pressurized alcohol stove works on the temperature differential between the burner and the alcohol supply: they MUST be preheated. The easiest way to preheat is to pump up the stove, open the valve and let a little alcohol dribble out into the pan around the burner head, close the valve, and then light the alcohol. Let the alcohol burn out (or nearly so), thus heating up the burner. When the burner is hot, you can open the valve again and the alcohol will now be a gas that can be lit. The stove takes less preheating in cold weather than in hot weather because of temperature differentials.

You can also buy a preheating paste, but I've never found that necessary when you can just dribble a little alcohol out of the burner.

Curtains got burned because people were too impatient to preheat. If the burner emits liquid rather than a gas, it's not hot enough. Sailors, of all people, ought to be patient (otherwise they should buy a turn-the-key-and-go-fast stinkpot).

I'd also recommend buying soot-free alcohol -- it's easier on the eyes and nose.

Propane is convenient and potentially dangerous (it's heaver than air and sinks to the bilge). It also comes from the Middle East. Alcohol probably comes from Iowa or somewhere domestic. With a little maintenance and a little patience, you can save a lot of money by using the stove that came with your boat.

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 05/17/2004 14:45:59

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2004 : 14:50:08

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">they MUST be preheated<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Also, on mine, it's important to fill the tank only about two-thirds full. Try not filling the tank completely -- my stove doesn't work well with a full tank.

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joegeiger
1st Mate

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USA
63 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2004 : 16:02:14

Thank you for the tips on pre-heating and filling. You are right...I was expecting it to work like my trusty Coleman camp stove. I'll give it a good cleaning and see if that doesn't help too. -jg

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ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2004 : 21:01:29

With respect to opening the valve to let a little bit of alcohol into the cup for preheating, we discovered years ago when using kerosene Primus or Optimus stoves that you can put a little alcohol in the cup from a separate small container, same applies to alcohol pressure stoves. You light this up, burn it off, then open valve and light the vaporizing fuel coming through. After some practice, you get the hang of exactly how much alkcohol to put in the cup for preheating. Of course real experts will say "I can open the valve, run in the priming alcohol, close the vlave, light her up, and at EXACTLY the right moment, just as the cup burns out, twist the valve and light up the main vaporizing fuel coming through. Yeah. Maybe. But not every time, trust me, and not in all conditions. It is much safer to use a separate dash of priming alcohol, burn that off, and then be ready with your barbecue lighter, match, or whatever. In England they used to sell a little asbestos clip spongy thing that sat in the cup. You kept this in your little jar of alcohol, put it in the cup to use for priming, and when it burned out you were all set for the preheated main event. Good curtain fricasee, ron srsk Orion SW FL

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2004 : 21:56:25

Boy, that sounds like great sport! My Origo is so dull by comparison.

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2004 : 00:18:25

I'm not clear why the source of the priming alcohol (from the valve or from a separate container) makes any difference.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">dash of priming alcohol, burn that off, and then be ready with your barbecue lighter, match, or whatever<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

That's usually what I end up doing, but it seems more simple to me to just source the priming fluid from the valve, rather than keeping a separate container. In another hobby of mine, backcountry skiing (sort of backpacking on skis), a functioning stove to cook food and melt snow for water can be essential for survival in cold, high altitude places far removed from civilization where really bad weather can hit any time. My old Optimus white gas stove primes and operates exactly the same as the "curtain burner" on the boat, and to me it also seems more simple to source the priming fluid from the valve. However, some skiing friends don't do it that way (usually with stoves much newer than mine), claiming liquid white gas during priming doesn't burn completely and small amounts of soot created can clog parts. They instead carry a small container of acetone which they say burns hotter and more efficiently during priming. It sounds logical, but I'll probably keep doing it the way I always have because it's simpler and hasn't failed me yet (both in the mountains and on the sea). Regardless, my guess is that priming with liquid alcohol creates less soot than priming with white gas.

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frich
Captain

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USA
418 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2004 : 07:06:57

I bought my Origo 300 on E bay for $180 (during the winter) Used the original stainless enclosure and fabricated (2) gimabal mounts.

Now if I only knew how to cook?

Frank R
84 C25 Sk

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gambrose
Deckhand

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USA
20 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2004 : 07:47:26

Hi Joe,

The original stove is really a pretty good stove. First, what is the exact problem with the right burner? Knowing that would help with suggestions.

The pan that you refer to at the bottom is really where the preheating alcohol does it's work. It does not matter how you get it there, either from a seperate container or through slight pressure to the tank. It should be allowed to collect in the pan for pre-heating. Be sure to have a small amount...that is where most of the problems originate in terms of high flame. Try putting your cooking pot over the pre heating flame as insurance. By heating the brass base area you are creating the opportunity for liquid alcohol to become a gas that you light at the burner outlet. Keep a long charcoal butane lighter on board. If you miss turning the gas on at the end of pre heat use it for lighting the gas at the outlet.

The burner disassembly is pretty easy. Grasp the topmost collar and twist counter clockwise and it comes off. Everything else from there on down also comes out for cleaning. Also keep a small needle or pin onboard to insert in the outlet hole. Just a small blockage there will make it difficult for the gas to vent evenly.

With practice these stoves are terrific!

Gary

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2004 : 09:41:30

At the end of the priming 'burn' the last of the alcohol in the burner will begin to vaporize and make a light 'roaring' sound. That's when it's time to crack the valve open and let more alcohol in... not before.

On my Princess (stove that is), the knobs have a 'clean' position (twisted all the way to the left).

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joegeiger
1st Mate

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USA
63 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2004 : 13:02:11

Thank you again for all your tips and insights. I never imagined it was all this technical. Thank goodness for alcohol stove tech support. :)

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oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2004 : 18:20:16

I thought I was the only one who had no trouble with and liked the original Princess alcohol stove.

The real problem with this stove is that care (well explained by others above) must be taken when lighting it. On the other hand, another kind of care must be taken when using propane which is heavier than air and even worse, butane which is even heavier than propane, since either gas can and will settle in the bilge even though the cabin is vented from above through open hatches and/or removed hatchboards. Our boats are not equipped with bilge blowers to remove these explosive vapors and like gasoline, they can accumulate over time. Whenever a fuel is used to provide an open flame in a small confined space which is, in itself, made of fiberglass and therfore easily combustible, care must be taken and good sense applied.

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2004 : 21:25:49

When I mounted my Origo I just dropped it into the old stainless steel cabinet from the old curtain burner. I didn't bother with gimballs as I only cook at anchor or otherwise moored. I bought a stainless steel teakettle at K mart in the Keys, and use a Merilatt plastic coffee cone built for the small #2 filters, makes a great 10 oz coffee before the filter clogs.
I like the Origo because when hung over in the morning you just light it and it works and you just wait for the water to boil. I usually fill up the teakettle at night if I don't forget. Then just light in the morning, usually after first light.

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jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2004 : 15:37:37

Joe,

One trick I used that no one has mentioned is to just put a pot or pan on the stove over the burner that you are trying to light. It disappates the flame enough to keep it clear of the curtains. If you get a little soot, you can wipe it off with a paper towel.

The pan you refer to...is it the round part just below the burner head or the gimballed stainless steel base from which the burners emerge? If you are allowing alcohol to accumulate in the latter, you will likely get a lot more than burned curtains.

The part just below the burner head is what is used to preheat the burner. It only takes a little alcohol in it, maybe a teaspoon, to preheat.

After having said this, I did convert my stove to propane using one of the tech tips procedures. But I wanted a faster, hotter flame than alcohol. I believe propane burns a couple of hundred degrees hotter.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
SF Bay

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2004 : 00:15:49

I first tried getting the original alcohol burners to work well enough to boil a quart of water, and eventually gave up. I think one of the built in cleaning needles broke off in the fuel jet.

I did the alcohol to propane burner conversion, and have been very pleased with the results, including living on the boat for a month long vacation cooking every day. My propane tank is installed outside the cabin and has a 1/4 turn gas rated cutoff valve at the tank. So far, so good.

-- Leon Sisson

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