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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

broken sail slugs

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joe keith
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/01/2004 : 12:20:15

I have had problems with breaking those plastic sail slugs that attach the mail sail to the mast. While putting in a second reef if the boat is allowed to point down wind enough such that the sail fills with air while the halyard is loose many or all of the slugs break. Not too much of a problem with two people on the boat as the helmsman can keep the boat pointing up while sailing on the jib. However I am having a problem while single handing keeping the boat pointing far enough up to luff the main, tie off the tiller, run up to hook the reef cringle all while the halyard is loose. If I hove to as soon has I loosen the the main halyard the boat begins to turn down wind and I get into the problem area. I normally put in the second reef at around 20 knots of apparent wind.

What shackels and slugs to other folks use and any tips putting in a reef while single handing (I have no auto pilot).

Thanks

Joe C25 85 FKSR

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2004 : 14:26:00

A lot of us have down hauls on our headsail, a very small line clipped to the head of the sail and running down to a small block at the stem fitting where it runs through the stanchion bases back to the cockpit. Lately I have noticed a few mentions of using a downhaul on the main. It would seem to me that if you got your sail all the way down before going forward (rather than just down far enough to put in the reef) that you would be able to put in the reef without the sail billowing and breaking your slugs; then simply raise the sail to it's reef hoist point from the cockpit where you have some degree of control over the tiller.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2004 : 14:32:57

IMHO... there are 3 solutions to your problem...

1) Use stainless steel shackles and stainless-insert slugs. (now the sail will go away before the slugs) Sailrite has 'em. (as do many other vendors).

2) Set up a line on your reefing hook/cringle and run it aft to the cockpit... it will be rigged much like a cunningham. Run the luff reefing lines aft too while you're at it and you can reef without going to the mast. (this is probably your best bet)

3) Get an autopilot

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2004 : 14:36:14

I've used the nylon and stainless sail slugs for years without any problems.

I buy them from Sailnet because they usually run about 50% cheaper than West Marine.

As far as the size of the shackles you need, that would depend on the spacing between the grommets and luff of your mainsail. Again, I bought some from Sailnet and saved around 70%. If you do order the shackles, remember to buy the protectors/inserts as well.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2004 : 14:57:21

Sounds like the real problem isn't with the slugs, it's with the lack of an autopilot. That was one of the first accessories I bought six years ago, and I believe it's way beyond being a convenience for singlehanding: it's a safety necessity. With a tillerpilot, you can go below to use the head, to look at charts, to get food; you can tend to sail trim issues like reefing (or, when raising sails, point the bow into the wind and keep the boat there while you tend to halyards and sheets); on easy days, you can stretch out on the foredeck and relax (my favorite spot); you can avoid the tedium and fatigue of hours holding a tiller. There are mechanical contraptions designed to hold the tiller in place, but a tillerpilot will hold a given course and make adjustments for changes in balance and trim. Get one: it will be the best $ 500 you ever spend on your boat.

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 06/01/2004 14:58:39

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2004 : 15:39:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">it will be the best $500 you ever spend on your boat<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

or $266 -- [url="http://www.sailnet.com/store/item.cfm?pid=15698"]Simrad Tillerpilot[/url].

A 6" extension rod ($20) and a deck plug (about $10 - $15 at any boating store) are all that is needed to finish the installation on a C25.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2004 : 16:34:29

Remember, on a lake you can always just go in to re-rig, you don't have to do it in the middle of the lake. In high wind I always beat out of the club to test my setup. If I have way too much sail up (as I have already once this year) you get to run back down to your slip. (or reach-reach) It is a real mistake to run first and have to beat back.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 06/01/2004 22:38:43

Bruce Ebling
Navigator

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USA
155 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2004 : 19:30:03

Joe: On my old C25 I had "slab" reefing set up on the boat and led the reef lines aft. I could single hand and reef in under 15 seconds. It is simple to set up and easy to use. I would recommend this as it is relatively inexpensive and easy to rig. You will need a turning block at the aft end of the boom, one more turning block at the gooseneck end, a pully at the cringle grommet on the sail, a snapshackle and block at the base of the mast and a turning block on the deck to lead the line aft. The procedure is to drop the main halyard to a specified mark, then pull in on the reef line, then re-tension the halyard. It is really cool and works great. I have that same setup on my new boat "Selah" and have never worried about reefing when sailing alone.
Bruce Ebling
1989 WK
"Selah"

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2004 : 23:55:03

I use a system similar to the one Bruce mentions. I believe it is in the Tech Tips, and originated (as so much on this site did) with Bill H. I made up two plates to close off the mast gate so the slugs don't fall out when I lower the main to reef. I have rigged a main dousing line (or downhaul) that allows me to lower the main the precise amount necessary for reefing without losing any tension on the luff of the sail or on the halyards (important since you are reefing because the wind is now freshening). The downhaul halyard (or douser) runs through a rope clutch next to the main halyard, and the reefing line is next to that, with the topping lift also led to a rope clutch on the other side of the coachroof. Reefing, even without an autopilot, takes about twenty seconds from start to finish.

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 13:19:02

Joe: Sounds like an auto-pilot would solve that problem. You should, however, also be able to simply lash your tiller to give you 5-10 minutes up front without turn off the wind. A bungee cord works best for me for lashing. Take your time, be sure your main is luffing good and you're sailing on just the jib before you lash down the tiller.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 14:56:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by matsche
 ...You should, however, also be able to simply lash your tiller to give you 5-10 minutes up front without turn off the wind...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't think I've ever gotten 10 minutes up front with a lashed tiller in seastates and winds that would warrant a reef.

I sometimes won't get 15 seconds from the bungeed tiller before either the wind or the waves have pushed the bow over.

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 17:14:15

OK, maybe it only SEEMED like 5-10 minutes, but it was enough time to go up front, let loose the main haylard, tighten up both reefing lines, then tighten up the main haylard again and coil the excess line without getting blown 180. The times I've done it, I was sailing with the 110 jib. I'm guessing that with a bigger genoa, it may be too much foresail to avoid a blow-around. In that case, I'd heave-to, drop the genoa, then motor into the wind whilest I reef. I sail occasionally with just the 110 by itself, and as long as it's not gusting badly, the balance isn't too bad.

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2004 : 20:30:26

Brooke and Richard are right, though. An autopilot solves many of the problems of the single hander. Having all the lines led aft certainly makes reefing (and everything else) safer. But when it comes time to go forward, and the wind is whipping up, and the waves are beginning to crest, the only safe way to do it is by clipping into a harness and jacklines. A single hander should always remain intimately attached to the boat. An auto pilot solves that problem. Nothing else really does.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2004 : 07:20:46

PLUS, if you're singlehanding, you really need to lead your control lines to the cockpit. The first year I had my C25, I did the "run back and forth between the mast and the cockpit" dance. That got old, and scary, really quickly. The first modifications I did to the boat were to lead all lines to the cockpit. The tillerpilot was the second. Now, with a jib downhaul, I don't have to leave the cockpit for much of anything. And if I DO go forward, the tillerpilot keeps the boat from rounding up, gybing, or something else -- and that helps keep me on the boat. When I'm heading for home, I can fire up the outboard, drop the sails, set a course for the inlet, then stow sails and make ready for docking while the course stays straight and true.

Brooke

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2004 : 06:36:20

An auto-pilot is one good solution for this problem, as I stated in my first post. But you need a back up plan in case the auto-pilot flakes out at an inopportune moment, or you're one of the working poor that can't afford one!

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2004 : 09:08:08

Joe, I have never seen an auto pilot on a lake boat, are there any on your lake? Where do you sail?

Edited by - on

joe keith
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2004 : 21:57:18

I sail on a small mountain lake in Colorado (Lake Pueblo).

There aren't many people who use an auto pilot on the lake but I am sure there are a few.

I would prefer to solve this problem without an auto pilot. Seems like the best approach is the idea of keeping the luff under some tension while the halyard is let down. Prehaps not using the reef hook on the boom, just a line as suggested.

On my previous boat (also a Catalina) I was able to heave to and loosen the main without incident. The boat always stayed pointing pretty well into the wind and I had as much time as needed to complete the operation. What I am finding with this C25 is that it very quickly gets blown down wind. When that happens and the halyard is loose the slugs are history. So I was wondering if the plastic slugs are the norm for this boat. Second, do others find their boats easly blown down wind. Note that I can find a good heave to position (50-60 degrees off the wind and 0 boat speed, only lee way) The problem is that trying to reef the sail at that point completely destroys that balance. Of course the best solution would be to be able to reef on any point of sail. Keeping the luff tensioned may be the trick.

Thanks all for your comments

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2004 : 22:09:07

Hi Joe,

I use the Davis Tiller Tamer ($24 @ West Marine) with good success.

And, yes, terrible problem being blown off the wind due to the high freeboard on the C25.

Good luck!

Edited by - on

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