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Racing Question: What went wrong?

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/05/2004 : 18:18:43

Hi All,

My wife and I have never raced, but our sailing club has Women's Regattas from time to time and my wife decided to ask another (experienced) woman to skipper our C25 while my wife crewed. There were four boats total, ours, and three C22's. The C22's left us in their wake, big time. Our boat did not even finish it was so slow.

A couple points to mention:
1. Neither my wife nor the guest skipper were able to lift the engine out of the water to reduce drag, so we knew that was going to slow us down.
2. We did not have a whisker pole, all the C22's did. There were no spinnakers.
3. We were flying our Genoa (155, whatever), no reefs.
4. Winds were probably around 10 mph.
5. The C22's were cranking their keels up on certain legs, I don't remember which.

I think that's all the pertinent information. I wouldn't mind finishing last so much, except that my boat couldn't even finish? The guest skipper we had said that if we had a whisker pole we would have done much better. She did say our boat sailed really well upwind, but we fell behind when we sailed downwind. She said our boat does not like going downwind at all.

Any thoughts? I was hoping to take up racing this year, but not if I can't even finish!

Thanks All!

Ben
Beneteau 361
Viking Kitty
Columbus, Ohio

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2004 : 18:53:30

Sail shape, sail shape, sail shape. Practice, practice, practice and then practice some more.

Have you read <u>Sail Power</u> by Wallace Ross?

Don't be discouraged, you'll get better and you'll start placing.

Edited by - OJ on 06/05/2004 18:57:13

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2004 : 19:39:20

Well, items 1 & 2 are not very helpful for the 'ol boat speed.
They did take the engine out of gear...?

"To make any boat faster, add lightness" (borrowed/adapted from a famous race car designer).

Remove anything not needed for the race. Water tanks empty, holding tanks empty, extra anchors, foodstuffs, bedding, (yada) all off the boat. Only enough fuel to get to/from the venue. Bottom scrubbed clean.

Beyond that... it's all as OJ said... "Sail shape, sail shape, sail shape." This covers having good sails, low-stretch halyards, a properly tuned rig etc. The rest is having quality boat time (i.e. experience).

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2004 : 20:05:57

Ben, you've identified two things that undoubtedly cost a lot of time - the motor in the water and no whisker pole. The outboard motor generated drag all the way around the course, and the lack of a whisker pole meant that your sails weren't fully spread across the wind, generating maximum drive downwind. Those conditions alone could account for the results that you describe. The fact that your boat did reasonably well to windward tells you that the sail trim was not bad. Poor sail trim manifests itself most clearly when going to windward.

The guest skipper was wrong when she said C25s don't like to sail downwind. C25s like sailing downwind just fine, but it's up to their human crews to use the equipment that is required to spread their sails fully.

IMHO, our C25s have astonishing sailing abilities for a fairly heavy family cruiser. My boat can usually stay among the J24s all the way to the windward mark, and can occasionally beat them downwind.

Another condition that can slow a boat tremendously is if the bottom and keel are foul with algae, dirt and peeling bottom paint. If you want to race it, either sand or strip off the old bottom paint, and coat it with a good racing paint, like VC17. It's a lot of work, but you'll be rewarded ten-fold with results.

Volunteer to crew for a good racer who sails a boat similar to the C25. You'll learn a lot about sail trim, racing tactics and helmsmanship. After the race is over, ask the skipper to explain why he did this or that.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2004 : 20:16:28

Ben, I just noticed that you live in Columbus, Ohio. I live in Dayton and sail on Brookville Lake in southeastern Indiana. If you'd like, I'll give you a racing lesson on my boat or yours, at my lake or yours, either in an actual race or in a make-believe race. I can loan you my whisker pole, so you can see how to set it and jibe it. Contact me at my email address if you want to arrange it.

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2004 : 08:56:46

Hi Ben,

As others have said, not being able to raise the engine was a big drag. No question that this slowed your boat significantly.....especially in the light 10 knot breeze. Even if you only lost 1/2 knot in boat speed, that 1/2 knot probably amounted to about 10% of your potential. AND, if the skipper's choice was to sail on a downwind run, the whisker pole was a critical element.

Other thoughts - with regard to sail shape, how blown out are your sails? If yours are in poorer shape compared to the competition, you won't be able to get the same performance out of your boat. Many daysailors and cruisers cannot immagine the difference that new sails make. Not to mention changing the sail shape from upwind to downwind settings.

Steve mentioned the condition of the boat's bottom. If yours is in poor shape with peeling bottom paint or marine growth, you could be loosing another 1/4 to 1/2 knot in light breezes.

Finally, at some point around the 10 knot wind speed range, it becomes faster - much faster - to broad reach downwind instead of running. The boatspeed more than makes up for the extra distance sailed. So, tactics might have played a part too. You might want to spend a little bit of time reading some racing tips located on the racing page of this website. http://www.catalina25-250.org/racing/racing.html

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

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USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2004 : 10:14:01

Hi Ben,

Just a thought here,

The Catalina 22 is A LOT lighter than a C-25. That's an advantage in low wind.

The 25 has a much fuller hull shape below the waterline as well. That'll slow you down too. (Relative to the 22).

The C-22 has a very flat bottom. That's a benefit downwind. Like the famous Cal-40, which I have seen out of the water, that has a very flat bottom. Designed to surf downwind. That's why they call them "sleds".

I think the weight, hull shape, dragging motor, no whisker pole and low wind speed hurt you quite a bit.

Next time, challenge the 22 to a game of chicken

. You will win hands down.

PW

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2004 : 07:26:06

Thanks for all your help and advice. I don't really know how blown out my sails are, having never had a new set to compare to. My bottom seems (to me) to be very clean. So far this year I've been launching from the trailer each time I sail, so there is no growth, and the bottom is painted with (I think) VC-17.

Steve, thank you very much for offering to give me a lesson. That is very generous. I would really like to take you up on that offer too. I will email you to see if we can set something up.

Edited by - on

Headhunter
1st Mate

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74 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2004 : 10:23:57

Was this a PHRF handicapped race? The Catalina 22's have a pretty strong rating (279) compared to a Catalina 25 (228) on Lake Norman, NC. Also, the Cat 22's are strong racers...There's a sailmaker from Columbia, SC who has brought his Cat 22 to Lake Norman a damned near beaten the spinnaker fleet with it.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2004 : 13:06:10

Hi HH,

This was a PHRF handicapped race. I understand C22's may have a better rating than our boats, but I would have liked to have seen my wife at least finish!

Edited by - on

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.