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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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trailer towing

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barmstro
1st Mate

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34 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/03/2004 : 03:17:37

On Tuesday I purchased a nice 1979 swing keel standard rig that is still in the water, today I was looking at one on a trailer and had not realized how very much bigger the c25 is compared to my c22. Question? will I need anti sway bars on my f150 short bed truck.
I also plan on going to nationals in 2 weeks, If a newbie can go how come more of you old timers aren't going?
ps I really injoy this forum.

Bob Armstrong 1979 c25 SK/SR #1119 GoodTide'ngs II
Federal way Wa.

Edited by - barmstro on 07/03/2004 03:21:01

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2004 : 07:54:26

I believe that anti sway bars will interfere with the operation of a surge mechanism, if you have one.

When I got rid of the factory original Firestone tires on my truck and bought real Michelin truck tires (I believe load range C or D) the swaying on my truck went down considerably. I then added an extra leaf to my springs at the local custom spring shop (cost about 350 bucks) it eliminated most of the porpising and tail dragging. I have a half ton 4wd full size extra cap Chevy gas hog pickup with 8900 lb towing capacity.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2004 : 10:38:46

If you're truck is a single cab, ie. short wheelbase, then IMHO a 25 behind it is pushing it. Make sure, and there is only one way and that is with scales, that your tongue weight is correct, ie. 8-10% of trailer weight. (See if it all fits in the manufacturers specs for towing weights while you're at it.) Make sure tire pressure is where it should be all around, and make sure your trailer brakes work REALLY well.

Because, when the tail starts wagging the dog, (fishtailing) the only way to get it back under control is to brake the trailer more than the truck. So you hit the brakes on the truck, let the trailerbrakes engage, ease up on the truck brakes and let the trailerbrakes slow the rig down, and in the process straighten it out. Not an ideal way to go, but manageable if you know what you're doing.

Oscar
Catalina 42 # 76, Lady Kay
Catalina 250WB#618 Currently FOR SALE:
http:www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - Oscar on 07/03/2004 10:40:05

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2004 : 10:59:11

Bob, If you load that sucker up and somehow find it dangerous...DO NOT proceed. I can come up to Oly and tow you down behind my F250 long wheel base. I towed Suede Shoes up there 2 years ago for Bill Sloane, and I would certainly do that for you in order to get you here! I will certainly get you back home, but it may have to wait until after the "cruising" optional events that go through July 20. I will be REALLY busy the last few days before registration, but, with a little bit of warning, I could do it on Monday afternoon? Tuesday sometime?

(but we have to Race Committee a big boat race that evening. Wednesday is registration and crazy....but, hey, I think I could round trip it in about 3 hours, depending upon trailer ball size and electrics for lights. PLEASE let me know if and when I should pencil this in! BE careful.....but don't STAY HOME! Come!

Gary B.
Vice Commodore
Fleet 94 Captain

P.S. I have every confidence that Steve K. took excellent care of those brakes on the trailer; stopping it is your real concern. If you don't try to do 70 on the freeway, you should be okay. I would find the slow lane and aim for about 50-55 max. mph....you'd still do the trip in about 2 hours....no biggie.....let them go around you!

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2004 : 14:46:27

Like Oscar said, make sure your truck is capable (at least legally) of towing that much weight. There are not too many half ton short beds, of any make, that are able to safely tow a boat/trailer of this size and weight. The reason I said 'legally' is in case something was to happen and the ins co found out you were towing more than legal...your insurance could be void.

Edited by - on

barmstro
1st Mate

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34 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2004 : 02:10:42

Iforgot to lmention that is a full crew cab with four doors and full seats so the wheel base is standard. The book says the truck is rated for 8,200 lbs. with the 5.4 ltr trinton v8. I'll try to meet with steve the first part of next week so I can get the trailer and hitch matched up. I didn't have a clue that there could be some interference with sway bars.
Love this forum
Gary I will let you know my plans as soon as I figure them out. See you in 2 weeks one way or another.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2004 : 02:29:21

I used our Jeep Grand Cherokee to tow our fin keel from the central valley of Ca. to San Francisco as the madien trail sail. When I got home I told my wife we need a bigger truck. The Jeep had the power to pull it anywhere, just didn't have the mass to keep from being tossed all over the place. Now we have a one ton dullie. Great for towing, but hell on gas.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2004 : 08:20:13

When you all are talking about the effects of "sway bars" on towing, I'm wondering if you're all talking about the same thing. I believe there's hitch sway bars intented to reduce "snaking" down the road while towing, and there's axle sway bars intended to reduce body lean in turns whether towing or not.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2004 : 11:25:41

"... full crew cab with four doors and full seats ... the truck is rated for 8,200 lbs. with the 5.4 ltr triton v8."

Sounds to me like you'll be ok... You may want to add some helper springs and/or a sway bar on the back to help stiffen things up. You'll find out if you need them on your first tow.

One of the earlier comments in this thread was about having the right tires... I second that. Good, beefy 'real' truck tires make a big difference in stability, especially on the rears. Most of the 'stock' tires that come on these rigs favor ride quality over load capacity.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2004 : 21:52:37

Keep in mind that there are many components and systems on a pickup truck that get larger, heavier, and stronger as you move up the ladder from F-150 to F-250 to F-350. These include the frame rails, brakes, wheel bearings, steering tie-rods and ball joints, rear axle, drive shaft, and u-joints. Pulling a Catalina 25 with a F-150 is towing right at the outer limits, expecially for the powertrain and brakes, whereas with a SuperDuty F-250 or F-350 you have a comfortable margin for those unexpected "jam-the-brake-pedal-to-the-floor" emergency stops - the kind of braking situation that can jackknife your rig if the trailer is too much heavier than the tow vehicle. There was an accident down in Texas last year where a 1989 Catalina 25 Mk. IV was totalled, along with it's trailer and tow vehicle, when the driver lost control and the whole rig jackknifed and rolled - the tow vehicle was one of those newfangled "mini-SUV's", a GMC Envoy. The few Envoys that I have seen on the road seem only slightly larger or longer than a Toyota Camray-size passenger car, certainly not even in the same league as a Suburban or Expedition. One of our sailing club members has towed his Catalina 25 a few times with a Dodge Dakota, and while the engine seems powerful enough, he has reported it feels too "squirrelly" when descending the steep grades on the roads leading to Folsom Lake,

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2004 : 17:21:57

I'll be driving down from Olympia on Tuesday pulling a fixed keel Cat 25 with my F150 - it's the extended cab, 5.4L V8. I expect that everything will go okay, at about 55mph. I towed the boat home from Portland, when I bought it, with the same truck. I have an appointment with the North Channel Marine sling at 1:00 pm Tuesday.

Just don't make any sudden maneuvers and everything should be fine.

Edited by - on

nate
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2004 : 16:14:42

Bob,
I just towed my C25 across the country behind my Chevy Suburban. I did not use sway bars but did have a weight distributing hitch that made all the difference in the world. The hitch I have has chains that hang from the trailer frame and allow the surge brakes to operate w/o problems. Also, check your hitch receiver/ball to ensure they are rated to 10,000# not the common 6,0000# type. I rebuilt the entire brake system, put on new tires/rims and even had the trailer sandblasted and repainted before I left Las Vegas....things I considered "insurance" against breakdowns. The only trouble we had was a loose license plate bolt. Happy trailering and enjoy the Nationals!!

Edited by - on

Ellis Bloomfield
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2004 : 16:58:54

I pull my 25 with a F150 long bed 4wd, 6 cyl and it works fine up to 55mph, and that's fast enough for me. Over that it starts swaying a bit. Paid 1200 for the truck when I got the boat and while it isn't as showey as some of the new rigs, it serves fine as a tug. I do have to shift down on big hills, but keep generally keep up with loaded trucks. My trailer (surge) has the fittings for hitch stbilizers but I don't have the bars for it.

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2004 : 18:36:59

Bob,

Here is a web site I found awhile back written by a for Ford 'service engineer' in regards to towing his own C-25. Some good food for thought: http://www.mascom.com/sail/tow_vehicle.htm

Edited by - on

barmstro
1st Mate

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34 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2004 : 03:40:04

I towed new (1979)c25 boat home from Olympia to Seattle today. No problems so far. I purchased a new type adj head on the hitch so the trailer was in line with the truck. No sway at all. I tried to keep it 55 to 60mph but at time it would creep up to 65 still no sway or bounce. The new brakes on the trailer worked great. I did replaced the tire even though they looked good but the PO said they were 10 years old. Went to Les Swab and had 6 ply trailer tires put on. Quick ? they said the tires were rated at 1,820 lbs. to me 4 times 1,820 is 7,280 lbs Is that enough of a safty margin When I have the boat loaded to the gills for a week long trip? any comments

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2004 : 08:29:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by barmstro
 Went to Les Swab and had 6 ply trailer tires put on. Quick ? they said the tires were rated at 1,820 lbs. to me 4 times 1,820 is 7,280 lbs Is that enough of a safty margin When I have the boat loaded to the gills for a week long trip? any comments
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Based on the 1820# capacity, I'd guess that the tires you bought are Load Range "C". They are minimally adequate for a Catalina 25 trailer. If you ever need to buy tires again, I recommend you upgrade to Load Range "D", which are 2400# capacity per tire. They won't be as squishy, won't develop "flat spots" (or at least not as much) and will probably last longer.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2004 : 10:59:15

"When I have the boat loaded to the gills for a week long trip... 4 times 1,820 is 7,280 lbs Is that enough ?"

Tires have a considerable safety margin engineered in at their rated load, so I think you're just fine... however... the stock trailers (at least the EZ loader) are only good for 7,000 lbs so you really don't want to load the boat to the gills. As you approach the trailer load rating your chances of trouble increase.

As much heavy stuff as possible should go in the truck. It makes a bit more work to transfer the cargo to the boat at the ramp, but it is better than having a trailer failure or ending up in a wreck.

Load range "D" would be a better tire.. but I think 1820 lbs is about as heavy as you can find for 14" 5-lug rims (?) At any rate, I've been out there tire shopping (for the same reasons) and I haven't found anything heavier in 14"... yet anyway.

Suppose I could upgrade to 15" 5-lug rims at the same time... that's probably not a bad thought.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2004 : 11:22:03

Has anybody towed a C25 with a Chevy Tahoe? I'm wondering if I can use my son's to go to the Nationals next year.
Derek

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2004 : 13:21:32

Tow ratings on Tahoe's are around 7,500 lbs. IMHO Should work, but not a lot of reserve capacity. Do you have brakes on both trailer axles ?

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2004 : 14:54:31

Shucks, Clam. I don't even have a trailer - yet! Incidentally the Tahoe is equipped with the full factory towing package and is supposedly rated at 9,800 lbs.
Derek

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2004 : 00:09:03

having towed Nin Bimash II for several summers with a F250 3/4 ton (struggling at times) I just completed a trip which included a 1600 mile tow using my newer GMC Siera 3500 long bed crew cab with the Big 8 liter V8. I would never tow a c25 again with anything less. there was no sway, the boat did not drive the truck and any of you who have driven the trans canada highway over the top of Lake Superior know that there is no road more difficult to tow a big rig on anywhere.
a side bar here, why is the main highway connecting all of Canada such a poor two lane road? Canadians pleas tell me what is going on in your country? As for the original post an F150 will not be up to the task of pulling a C25 boat and trailer with gear way exceed the stated weight of 4500 lbs. think more like 8000 lbs. good luck finding the right tow vehicle. when I moved up from the c22 this forum was great in giving me advice about what to use. the f250 worked for a while but a real heave truck is the answer. You see it is not just the vehicle's ability to pull your boat, the the tow vehicle needs to be heavy enough to command the trailer to remain in a subordinate position. get thee behind me......

you get the Idea.

Edited by - on

barmstro
1st Mate

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34 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2004 : 02:06:05

I have ordered load range "D" tires but that requires 15" rims. I was told you can't get range "D" in a 14" rim. The new load capacity exceeds 10,00 lbs. It may be over kill but I feel better. The new wheels will be 1.5" higher than the old ones but I think that will still leave plenty of clearence in the fender well.
More boat bucks.
PS how much is a boat buck? for my 22 I thought It was a $100 but maybe with this c25 it will be $1,000

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