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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Backing your o/b powered sailboat

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D Wrate
1st Mate

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38 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/05/2004 : 18:26:23

Greetings all, and a Belated Happy July 4th!

I seem to have a great deal of trouble backing out of our slip. Configuration is like this, with wind often as shown.

-------------

^|

B|

O| <-- wind

A|

T|

|

desired departure direction---->

I generally do not have a lot of room to back as the water gets very shallow very quickly.

When I back out the bow wants to swing away from the wind which I expect. I would like to back out and pull the stern to port so I can swing the bow into the wind and then pull away gracefully... Last time I had to back in my desired direction then forward in a circle to port ending up in the right direction.

Like most of you my o/b is aft of my rudder which under power is very powerful in reverse due to propwasdh over the rudder. Forward all I have is boatspeed to generate direction. Naturally in a crowded marina, too much boatspeed is a hazard

Any suggestions & techniques from the masters?

David

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2004 : 18:44:36

"Any suggestions?"

Absolutely... rig your outboard so you can steer with it ! I just lean over the transom and steer the rudder and outboard together. There are other ways (documented on this site) of rigging your rudder and outboard to turn together automatically.

As you've already noted, with the rudder not in line with the outboard, steering is dependent on headway, which can make things difficult... and require some 'bold' actions at times (practice).

"Last time I had to back in my desired direction... before ending up in the right direction."

No worries, unless you're in a boathandling contest, manouver whatever way is safe and works for you.

Edited by - on

Dave Laux
Captain

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318 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2004 : 20:57:31

If you had a somewhat slack line going from bow to stern along the dock and fastened to the dock at both ends you could hook it with a boat hook or a hand with a glove and hold the bow to windward as you backed away. That way the stern would blow off to leaward and you would end up pointed in the right direction. This would be easiest with two people but would also be possible to do by yourself by passing a line from your bow cleat, around the slack line, back around the cleat, and then aft to your hand. Let go when you are in the right place, accelerate the boat a little to stabilize it, put the engine in neutral and go forward to retrieve the line before it gets into the prop. The line should be small and slick like poly rope to make this work easily. A metal ring on the dock line will slide easier than rope too.

How far do you have to go in the departure direction to get to a safe place to turn around? If not too far, back to there straight off, and forget turning at the slip. Dave

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2004 : 21:33:42

There's no rule against backing all the way out.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2004 : 22:20:01

Welcome, David... As I understand your diagram, you are apparently backing against the natural "prop-walk" from the outboard. When you back up, especially getting started, the prop will pull your transom to port. (Going forward, it pushes to starboard). That means your boat wants to turn to port as you back out. Obviously, the wind is also working against you as it catches the mast and the higher freeboard of the bow.

Two thoughts:

1. When backing, try short bursts of throttle, and then allow the boat to coast in such a way that prop-walk is not working against you. Then use the rudder to turn.

2. As Doug said, you can simply back down the fairway till you get to a good place to turn around (or make a "Y" turn). I've done it--it just takes a steady hand on the tiller, which wants to swing to one side or the other in reverse. A friend of mine backs about 100 yards down the fairway to his slip. To passers by, it's clear he knows what he's doing!

Oops--I misread... You WANT the transom to pull to port. Well, I can only suggest that in addition to turning the motor, keep the power up (and engine turned) as you reach the postion where you want to turn. More likely, use #2 above.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/05/2004 22:30:53

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2004 : 08:45:59

Hi David,

You might try using a spring line to help pivot your boat in the direction you want to go. There is a good description of this in both the "Annapolis Book of Seamanship" by John Rousmaniere and in Chapman Piloting.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2004 : 10:21:53

I always use both the outboard and tiller to manuever the boat in close quarters and I can spin the boat on a dime. Like you, I don't have much backing up room so I employ a little technique that works like a champ.

I first start out by quickly getting myself going backwards fast enough to gain steerageway with the rudder, then I put the motor in neutral. As I'm coming out of my slip, I gradually put the tiller to starboard to get the stern moving to port. Once my bow clears the boat next to me and with the tiller still way over to starboard to keep my stern moving to port, I put the outboard tiller hardover to port (thrust pointing directly to starboard). At the appropriate time and with both tillers turned in opposite directions, I give the outboard forward throttle, and with the thrust directed hard over to starboard, it kicks the stern briskly over to port and the bow to starboard. While rearward momentum slows then stops and forward momentum begins, I gradually bring both tillers to the centerline position.

One question...what keel type do you have?

Edited by - dlucier on 07/06/2004 10:33:22

D Wrate
1st Mate

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38 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2004 : 12:28:04

The keel is fuller, not a full keel but not a fin either. Pics are here:
http://clubweb.interbaun.com/dwrate/boatpics

Edited by - on

sdaly66
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2004 : 12:41:03

David,

Believe it or not, I find backing MUCH easier than forward steering when at "marina speed". I have no qualms about backing fully out of my marina, and find that I have much more control this way.

As far as leaving the slip itself, I agree with the prior comment about using a long line on a piling to pull the boat into proper position. I use this technique almost every time.

You will applauded for your care for others' vessels and your ingenuity. Anyone who scoffs is frankly being foolhardy.

Safety first!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2004 : 12:41:28

My advice I gave previously was on the assumption that you had a C25 with a transom mounted outboard. The technique I described might be more difficult to do since your outboard is centered behind the rudder beneath a lazarette hatch in an outboard well.

Edited by - dlucier on 07/06/2004 12:43:24

sdaly66
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2004 : 12:43:54

Also, when in reverse, turn around and face astern. There's no rule that says who have to face forward all the time. A boat in reverse steers like a car (with the turning mechanism in front of you). A boat in forward steers, well, like a boat - with the stern swinging behind you and the bow changing aspect accordingly. I also find the effects of prop wash greatly diminished when in reverse.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2004 : 12:59:43

You hardly even need the engine in reverse to back out of that slip. Do what I do. Keep a 25 foot long line tied to the stern cleat on the side you want to turn the stern. Push the boat back out of the slip. Using the line, pull the stern over 45 degrees. There, half your turn is complete and your not even out of the slip yet! If you have a dock helper, have them walk the bow out on the other side, keeping it from hitting the upwind boat.

Walk your boat a little farther out. You are standing around the mast area, the boat is 1/2 out of the slip, and you have a good grip on the line. The stern is over about 45 degrees. The motor is running in neutral.

Give the boat a final push. Pull the stern over a little more with the rope. Jump on. Walk to the back. Give one blast of reverse power with the tiller over.

If you had a helper, have them continue to walk the bow out, then climb on at the last minute.

Shift to forward, give a quick blast to get the boat moving forward, throttle down, cruise out.

Never put the tiller over all the way when backing, just "carve" the water with it gently.

Never go fast. Try to keep the boat under about 1.5 knots in all docking and undocking situations.

Edited by - on

D Wrate
1st Mate

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38 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2004 : 14:42:31

I like this idea... walking the boat back with a line on the port stern cleat to pull the stern back to the dock, push the bow off and hop on.

By the way... you guys have great ideas for us small boat sailors.. as you can see our Hughes has much in common with a C25!

David

S/V Cindino

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2004 : 16:53:12

You could always dock "port side to" so that your departure is bow first negating the need to back up.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2004 : 07:35:51

I have found that I need to steer, especially in reverse, with both the o/b and the rudder. When I try to back using just the rudder response is slow, and the o/b tends to fight the rudder. When reeturning to dock I also use the o/b and tiller together to have a more responsive turn as I enter and approach my dock space.

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2004 : 10:51:58

Dave - I have a very similar situation as yours. There is one slip between mine and the walkway - with some very large and very hard and immovable posts anchoring the walkway. This configuration doesn't give me enough room to manuever safely, and with the prevailing wind it is usually a lee shore. I was taught to stay away from the hard shore so I just back out upwind until I have enough manuevering room, put it in fwd, and then, using both the tiller and O/B together - at slow speed - I can spin the boat around in nearly its own length and then head out. No problem.

Bill

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2004 : 00:22:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bbriner
 I can spin the boat around in nearly its own length and then head out. No problem.

Bill
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Remember that if your swinger is up like mine is in the slip area you will not spin in your own length.

Edited by - on

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