Association Forum - What ballast tank is in your 250-wb????????????

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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

What ballast tank is in your 250-wb????????????

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Keith D.
Navigator

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USA
233 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/02/2004 : 21:34:33

I recently had an interesting conversation with an owner of a 2002 250-wb. He told me his ballast tank ends at the <font face="Arial Black">front</font id="Arial Black"> of the aft birth. This would also be in front of the bilge. Has Catalina finally noticed that these boats are unbalanced? Instead of adding 300lbs. of sand to the front of the boat they must have just changed the mold a little so as to not have any ballast water in the back of the boat. A simple and cheep fix for them. I wonder if they just put a partition in the tank which would give the new boats less ballast and make them over all lighter. To keep the same amount of ballast they would have needed to make an entire new mold for the tank top. To make the partition they would have only needed to weld a small plate in the existing mold. Quick and easy. Do we know when they made this change? I know my ballast tank goes to the back of the aft birth or to the front of the battery. How far back does yours go?

Keith
Southern California
250wb Hull #8

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sailgal
Captain

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USA
400 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2004 : 23:21:05

Keith excuse my ignorance, but I have a 2002, how can you tell where the tank ends?

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DougA
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2004 : 23:54:29

Keith

I have a 96 250wb (#220) and my tank ends at the very front of the aft birth. The filler/drain valve is in the very back of the tank. I drilled a hole in the center of the bilge opening to add a thru hull for a water supply for the marine head I changed to. There is only hull, no tank. I did change from the one group 24 battery aft, to two group 27 batteries, one in each v berth.

The admiral is concerned that she can’t pull start the Honda 8hp and wants me to change to an electric start motor. If I do, I will add a starter battery in the old aft location.

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Keith D.
Navigator

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USA
233 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2004 : 23:55:16

Suzie from what I was told you can look in the bilge hatch. If you get your head in the hatch and look forward you should see the top of the ballast tank. You should be able to see it come to an end just in front of the bilge. The top of the ballast tank in the new boats is a "L" shaped piece. The bottom of the bilge should be the bottom of the boat. If you look aft through the hatch you should see the aft birth inner lining being held up off the bottom of the boat by blocks of wood wrapped with resin saturated cloth around them.

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mday
Navigator

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197 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2004 : 01:53:19

Doug,

Although not on the wb ballast tank topic, I put electric start in for the same reasons you mention. I was able to have a local marine shop add it to my motor (Evinrude 9.9 4 stroke) for much less than the price of a new motor. It still wasn't cheap -- around $800 as I recall, but well worth it for safety, security, and convenience.

Max

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bill bosworth
Navigator

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USA
172 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2004 : 09:05:07

Keith;
The balast tank on our 96wb #134 ends at the front of the aft birth.
Keith, I ordered a bimini top, and am wating for it to come, where did you come up with #6 grommets and tools?? Did you install them or go to a canvas shop?
Bill, c250wb #134 Serendipity

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sailgal
Captain

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USA
400 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2004 : 17:49:09

Yup, my 2002 WB #619 tank ends at the front of aft berth.

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Keith D.
Navigator

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USA
233 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2004 : 21:00:25

Bill I got the grommets from a local canvas/ automotive upholstery store. I got both #5 and #6. The ends of the backstay would fit through the 5#’s until you put them in the canvas so you will need #6’s. I put them in myself. The shop where I got the grommets had the tool to put them in also but they wanted $320.00 for it. Way too much for me for a one time use. What I used to put them in was several ball ping hammers. I started rounding the grommet off with a small hammer first and worked up to a big one using the ping end of the hammer to round out the grommet and a second hammer to tap it down. For a backing plate I used a piece of pipe on end. They sold me the grommets in a package of 12, of which I used three. One as a test on a scrap piece of material and the other two on the project. If you have problems finding them email me your address and I will send some to you. I have no plans for the ones I have left over.

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MarkTM
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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2004 : 10:28:40

Keith,

Who told you that 300 lb. of sand is beneficial for the water-ballasted model? I've only heard this about the wing keel. My 1999 wb model doesn't need any more weight in the bow.

Mark

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zebra50
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2004 : 11:03:48

I have to agree with Mark. My wb #370 has never seemed to need any additional weight. The only time I notice anything regarding balance etc. is when I let the fresh water tank run down or dry. As long as it is full the boat seems to be well balanced.

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Keith D.
Navigator

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USA
233 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2004 : 19:07:38

One thing I have noticed on my boat is it is sitting 7 1/2" above the water line in the front and at or below the water line in the back with nothing on the boat but the sails. With the answers from this post I think I have found my problem in that I have one of the only boats in which the water ballast tank goes all the way to the back of the aft birth. I do have a 9.9 Honda on its tail but I don't think it was enough to cause this much imbalance. One question where is where is your fresh water tank, under the sink? Also where are your batteries?

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2004 : 19:23:29

I thought boats as early as yours "#8" got retrofit ballast tanks from Catalina under warranty.

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bill bosworth
Navigator

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USA
172 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2004 : 22:26:32

Keit;
Our boat sits so that bow is about 1 1/2 inches below the water line, and the stern about 1 1/2 inches above the water line. This is with no one on the boat, the battery (1) in the stern, and a 9.9 Honda on the engine mount. Our water tank in below the sink, so it has little effect on the trim of the boat. I did notice a new c250 K at a nearby marina, The boat sat in the water exactly as you describe, bow several inches out of the water, the stern several a few inches below. Adding people to the boat can only make the trim worse. I have a buddy with a 250 of about the same age as yours, I'll ask him about his balast tank and trim.
Bill c250wb Serendipity

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Keith D.
Navigator

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USA
233 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2004 : 23:38:26

Frank I brought this subject up with Kent at Catalina and he said there never was any retrofit ballast tanks from Catalina under warranty or any other way. I have not been able to find any information on any retrofit notice or program. If you have any information about this let me know. The other two differences with my ballast tank and all others is it doesn't have a place for the senders for the instruments under the v birth and the vent is under the step, not up in the front going up to the anchor locker. I checked with Catalina and the checked the paperwork as to when my boat was shipped and it was shipped three weeks before these changes were incorporated.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2004 : 00:06:05

I think I saw it on Mark Melchor's Texas Sailor site

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MarkTM
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2004 : 17:06:30

I didn't remember addressing this situation (i.e., warranty work on ballast tank) on my website. But, further searching shows that it was mentioned in a Practical Sailor review of the C250. The PS article stated that "early hulls did have some serious hull problems, including a leak that influenced Catalina's decision to completely redesign the water ballast tank mold. But Catalina tells us the early hulls have all been retrofitted or are in the process of being corrected."

You might want to talk to Catalina Yachts again and mention this PS article.

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bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2004 : 19:23:27

Mark,

WOW! Where've you been? Drop me an email when you get a chance: bren737@msn.com. Good to see you back!

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2004 : 20:42:52

Bren, I saw RUAH in the yard at Canyon several weeks ago. She is beautiful.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 08/09/2004 22:13:14

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2004 : 21:46:55

She sure is that, but don't go sailing with him because he makes you work your tail off for cold drinks.
Bren, thanks to you and Buzz for a great Saturday.
The old folks got tired and beat up so we let the young folks take us home.

Left to right: Bren, Meredith (Jerry's granddaughter), Tanner (Bren's son at the wheel) and Buzz.

Edited by - frog0911 on 08/09/2004 21:50:36

bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2004 : 22:34:04

Frank,

Thanks for the kind words! It's a real compliment coming from the skipper of such a beauty boat as yours!

---------------

Jerry,

Really glad you and Meredith and Buzz were able to make it. Nice afternoon in spite of the rainy start to the day. Work hard? Just a taste of the fluky winds here at Canyon Lake! One hand on the mainsheet, one hand on the wheel. . . kind of makes it hard to hold on to your beer!

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Keith D.
Navigator

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USA
233 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2004 : 23:34:15

Mark I brought up the article about the tank leak and retrofit to Kent at Catalina and his first question was does mine leak. When I told him yes he went back to “I don’t know what they were talking about, there never was any retrofit to the ballast tank on the 250. We have made over 320 improvements to the boat over the years, one of them being the ballast tank.” The article in Practical Sailor never states whom they were talking to at Catalina. It just states “But Catalina tells us the early hulls have all been retrofitted or are in the process of being corrected.” This looks like a dead end. Maybe I could fill the back part of my tank with some kind of blown in closed cell foam. Like the kind they use on dock floats. I have seen some of this stuff floating around on the lakes and it is very light and doesn’t take on any water at all. Does any one know where I might get something like that? It’s probably a two part solution when mixed together creates the foam and dries to the shape of it’s enclosure.

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