Association Forum - Ocean Use

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Ocean Use

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Dan
Deckhand

Member Avatar

3 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/02/2002 : 14:36:43

I'm looking at a used Catalina 25, swing keel. I'll be using the boat almost exclusively in the Atlantic Ocean for daysailing, via a poorly maintained and very lumpy inlet. The boat will take a good pounding on ocean and a huge pounding running the inlet, depending on tide. I know that bigger would be better, but budget figures into it. Would I likely be happy with the 25 in steady winds and big swells and/or large chop? Will it work well to windward in these conditions? Can it take a pounding? How is the 25 for singlehanding?

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2002 : 18:32:15

I'm not sure that I'd be very comfortable with a swing keel in those conditions...
Derek (who's happy to have a fixed keel - even for lake sailing!)

Edited by - on

Bristle
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
834 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2002 : 10:34:58

Hi Dan... The C-25 is fundamentally capable of taking a "pounding" in coastal conditions, but the swing keel is probably not the right choice for your circumstances. In the standing waves of an inlet, the 1500# cast iron keel can do some damage as it swings back and forth. The fin (4' draft) or wing (under 3') are much better choices for you. In fact, if you were to buy a "swinger" in your area, you should be sure to have the keel trunk inspected by a professional surveyor to determine whether she's sustained some damage in that inlet. The survey is a good idea anyway--you can learn a lot from it, including when to walk away.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

Edited by - on

Bristle
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
834 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2002 : 10:45:05

BTW, Dan... You (and only you) can remove your 2 earlier duplicate posts by clicking the trashcan icon on the header of the post. YOu only see that and the edit (pencil) icons on your own posts.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2002 : 10:53:01

Dan: Here's another opinion. My swing keel has seen some nasty conditions and big waves. I have never been aware of the keel "swinging" or banging, and I have never (in 19 years) seen trunk damage. However, the swinger is designed primarily as a TRAILERABLE, and it doesn't sound like that's what you need. While I'll admit, the fixed keel offers more weight and stability, I don't think that Cat 25s (any of them) will go to weather well in high winds and big seas. Frankly, not very many small/ medium displacement boats WILL...
Man, I'd look at the marinas and talk a lot to the locals and try to hitch a ride on a few different boats before I bought one....Who are using their boats the way you will? How happy are they with their choices? Good luck, Gary in Washinton SK/SR #685 and #496

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1595 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2002 : 12:22:29

Without all the white wash and with respect to all those with swing keels the ansure is simple (NO). Having had both a swinger and a fixed keel the swing is not suitable for that enviroment on a regular bassis. I wouldn't even be happy doing it in a fin keel. I hate to say this but have you looked at the Cape Dory 25.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2002 : 13:04:07

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I'm looking at a used Catalina 25, swing keel. I'll be using the boat almost exclusively in the Atlantic Ocean for daysailing, via a poorly maintained and very lumpy inlet. The boat will take a good pounding on ocean and a huge pounding running the inlet, depending on tide. I know that bigger would be better, but budget figures into it. Would I likely be happy with the 25 in steady winds and big swells and/or large chop? Will it work well to windward in these conditions? Can it take a pounding? How is the 25 for singlehanding?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Hi Dan,

I must be getting old but my first reaction to your sailing parameters is, who would want to subject themselves to such abuse? And knowing that those conditions were to be faced whenever going sailing why try it in a boat NOT designed to deal with such factors. I'm of the school that sees in sailing a fun, relaxing, entertaining, learning experiencing. I had a swing keel Catalina 25 and I'll spare the old timers on the list the repetition of my travails with it sufficing it to say that after two cataclysmic failures with that design and changing the keel to a retrofit wing I still wouldn't venture out into the seas that you describe. That's coming from a seventy + yr old sailor who once sailed a dink across Great South Bay, as a youth, in a huricane. GO FIGURE

Val on the hard DAGNABIT

Val Bisagni

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2002 : 07:46:20

I do not have a lot to add that others have not already stated, but my two cents, I agree with Douglas 100% look at the Cape Dory or other Alberg designs ie. Seasprite 23' or the Alberg 23'. A good reference book on small blue water sailboats has recently been written by John Vigor, "Twenty Small Sailboats That Will Take You Anywhere." It is a paperback and fairly inexpensive. If trailering is not an issue The Catalina 27 might be a better choice. It did make Johns list. I am not sure about this but I thought I read that Catalina does not recommend the C 25' swing keel in Salt water applications.

Ray Seitz C 250WB

Edited by - on

Bristle
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
834 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2002 : 22:09:28

On the subject of Cape Dory (the CD-25 is not an Alberg design), I recommend the 26, which is from Alberg. It's a MUCH nicer boat that, like the 25, uses an outboard in the lazerette. The 25-D is also an Alberg design with an inboard diesel--considerably more pricey. The 25D and 26 are fine boats if they're well maintained (watch for soggy deck coring), but the 25, IMHO, is a misfit in the family. However, all 3 offer the stability of a full keel with a keel-hung rudder. The C-25's rudder is a key weakness in the conditions we've been talking about.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2002 : 22:52:44

Dave: You are so right about the CD-25 and that is an excellent point about the CD-25 being a misfit. It is such a misfit I usually forget it's there. The 25D is pricey and got worse after Vigor's book came out. One nice thing about that inboard diesel is you don't have to worry about how long that outboard shaft is<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>. I am glad one of my primary concerns was trailerability it sure narrowed the field down enough for me to pick one. There are really a lot of great boats to choose from.

Ray Seitz C 250WB

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.