Association Forum - Racing Tips

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Racing Tips

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

sailbehr
Deckhand

Member Avatar

4 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/22/2004 : 12:40:53

I just signed up to the Association, and I love this web site. The information is great. I have a 1984 Catalina 25 tr/sk and have been an avid cruser for 10yrs. My local sailing club hosts lots of races and some include auxillary boats. I have raced on j-22, flying scots, lasers, but I would like to make my Catalina faster. I have origional sails, adjustable back stay(doesnt seem to do much), 100%jib, no spiniker or spiniker rigging, and no whisker pole. Please give me some good advise and where to start. I am thinking new sails($1100), used 155% or170%(350), 7-17ft whisker pole.
thanks for your help!

Nelson Sharp

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2004 : 12:55:47

Hi,
I have a 86 fin keel std rig. Going about it the slow way I got a new 150, will get a new main maybe next year. For racing the jib will be a better first bet. Also check the bottom if it is rough a new bottom job will be just as good as a new set of sails. Imagine what both will do. I hope to get the bottom job and new main this winter. After that an adjustable back stay would be great. My adjustment now consists of a 1/4" line from backstay to stern pulpit. kind of crude. I'd also like to set up for a spinny too. till then we will be a little slower on the down wind leg of the race.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2004 : 20:24:45

IMHO (that means In My Humble Opinion; we use it a lot around here so we don't sound like the pompous people we really are). I would and did buy a main first. If you have an original main you have a marginally adjustable bag hanging on your mast. That means you do not have the ability to power up and down much less have any shape. You can change a headsail for various conditions but the main stays there. A new loose footed main will be miraculous to you. As for whether you go full batten or a powerhead is up to you. I went full batten, (the standard off the shelf; ship the same day, Ullman from catalinadirect.com) and have been very pleased. If you do not have crew that is trainable and owes you their first born child blow off the spinnaker for a while. Without regular crew you just can't fly it and as bitter a pill as this is to swallow if someone is good spinnaker crew then they are wanted on much more fun boats than ours and they will go there.
Bottom line... we don't know enough about you to really give much advice. Where do you sail? Do you have crew? What halyards do you have? What deck rigging do you have? How old are you? (under 80?) Tell us a lot more about you, where you sail and your boat.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 08/22/2004 23:15:42

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2004 : 21:00:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Please give me some good advise and where to start.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The minimum you need to race a C25 is a clean bottom, keel and rudder, a 110% jib, a 150% genoa and a whisker pole.

If the underwater surfaces aren't extremely smooth, I'd strip everything to the bare fiberglass, cover it with barrier coat, and new VC17 bottom paint. If the keel is rough or pitted, fair it. Then scrub the underwater surfaces before every race. It’s a lot of work at first, but it will do far more for you than new sails or rig tuning or other things.

If you have a 110% jib, but no 150, then you should get a 150. It doesn't have to cost $1100. and it doesn't have to be laminated. My sails are all dacron, and my new mainsail and 150 are inexpensive Rollie Tasker sails. Both of them combined didn't cost much more than $1100. The skilled racers that I know would be competitive, even if they were using old sails. New sails won’t make an unskilled racer fast. They will only give a skilled racer an edge over other skilled racers.

In the racing section of this website, I wrote a lengthy article on racing the C25 that describes how to tune the mast, including the adjustable backstay. The backstay does work.

The C25 (especially the tall rig) runs downwind very well without a spinnaker, and spinnakers generally require that you have 3 or more skilled crew to fly them reasonably well. If your crew isn't skilled, you'll lose more time messing with it than you will gain by flying it. I enjoy flying a spinnaker, but don't have one on my boat and don't need one to race competitively. A spinnaker boat can usually beat a JAM boat scratch, but is usually charged an extra handicap for doing so.

The best whisker pole for a C25 is the 7-17. If you want to get by with less expense, you can fabricate a perfectly serviceable one out of a 6-12 telescoping paint roller handle. You set it between the forward lower and upper shrouds, and it is only good for light to moderate winds, but that's when you need it the most.

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2004 : 22:54:09

In last Friday night's beercan on the Columbia River, the wind was tooting pretty well....probably in the 15-ish range. Just before the first start, my main came tumbling down...the new crew had not attached the main halyard properly so there it was at the masthead. Anyway, we decided to go ahead and start with just the 135 genoa up since we had no time to change headsails. I was AMAZED at how well the boat sailed. We didn't point quite as high as with the main, but our boatspeed was nearly the same as when the main is up.....We beat several boats to the weather mark, including a C30.

Then, we tried to raise the Asym for the reach back upriver into current, but the halyard was fouled with the main sail halyard, evidently and we couldn't raise it, so we took off with just the genoa again. My friends on another C25 had taken the second start 5 minutes behind us on this 3 mile course, but couldn't beat us across the line, even flying a big chute upriver.

Anyway...I am now a BIG believer in what I have heard for years...that these are really headsail driven boats....For me? A good genoa would be my first purchase....main second....but don't be afraid to get a spinnaker and gear. With decent coaching the first time or two...they are FAR easier to fly than I ever imagined....and they are so much FUN!

Gary B.
Vice Commodore
s/v Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2004 : 01:51:33

OH one more thing. I think class rules state no bigger than a 155 genoa. Bigger than that will be penalty points.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2004 : 08:31:16

If after a year or two, and several hundreds of dollars spent, you still want to pop for a spinnaker, try an asymetrical cruising shoot with a snuffer. You can use these with your wife/girlfriend as crew, the set-up is generally cheaper, and the C25 tall rig goes like a bat our of hell when sailing it. After all the racings done, you can use your 7-17 wisker pole with it on those long off-wind cruising runs.

Just a thought from the voice of experience.

Al
GALLIVNT #5801

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2004 : 12:39:39

Take a look at the Racing section of the Association website. Toward the bottom of the page is some very good info regarding making the boat go faster.

http://www.catalina25-250.org/racing/racing.html

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Todd Frye
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2004 : 18:12:20

I became much more in tune with my boat when I installed the auto helm. In conjunction with my GPS (to monitor speed), I consider these two additions to be the best way achieve optimum performance in most all conditions. I can set a course and begin adjusting sails for the present conditions and my GPS tells me if the adjustments are good or bad. By not being a slave to the tiller I can also distribute my weight to windward, keeping the boat flatter. I replaced my horn cleats with cam cleats, which greatly improves my abilities to tack on a moments notice. Read and adjust sails to telltales. I have an old Genoa with a “window” with telltales placed on both sides of this window so I get a great view of how the wind is moving around the sail. Telltales on the lower shrouds save your neck muscles from always checking the masthead windvane. Also saves getting blinded when the sun is in line with the windvane. When winds start picking up over 25 MPH, I usually take over and put the auto helm on standby since I’m close to hull speed anyway. My new 150 head sail has made a big difference in light air sailing, so no arguments on new sails being a big player. I have been tempted to take the J-boat race school, but it’s kind of pricey. I’d rather buy stuff for the boat. Good luck with your search for more speed. Todd Frye

Edited by - on

sailbehr
Deckhand

Members Avatar

4 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2004 : 18:17:12

Edited by - on

sailbehr
Deckhand

Members Avatar

4 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2004 : 18:33:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sailbehr
 I just signed up to the Association, and I love this web site. The information is great. I have a 1984 Catalina 25 tr/sk and have been an avid cruser for 10yrs. My local sailing club hosts lots of races and some include auxillary boats. I have raced on j-22, flying scots, lasers, but I would like to make my Catalina faster. I have origional sails, adjustable back stay(doesnt seem to do much), 100%jib, no spiniker or spiniker rigging, and no whisker pole. Please give me some good advise and where to start. I am thinking new sails($1100), used 155% or170%(350), 7-17ft whisker pole.
thanks for your help!

thanks to everyone for their help.
I read steve Milby's article and also found a lot of answers.
I need to tune my rig so the adjustable backstay works properly and that may help flatten my main that I thought must be blown out. I will scrub my bottom more( that doesnt sound right)I would love to remove the anti-fouling bottom paint and replace it with a barrier coat and vc17 but no reputiable marinas around here to haul her out and do the work. As for the sails, Im putting a new main and 155% on my Christmas list.
Fhopper asked for more information on my situation as to give more detailed advice so here it goes...I am lake sailing on short courses with 5-15mph winds with my wife(who isnt bad crew). The halyards are rope and wire and probably 20yrs old and I think the cheek blocks that raise the main and jib are on their last leg too. Im only 34 and still enjoy foredeck work on go fast boats.
thanks again for all the help and keep it coming i need it!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.